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My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding Channel 4

547 replies

sailorsgal · 18/02/2010 21:04

Anyone watching.

OP posts:
CaveMum · 01/02/2011 22:54

There is very little chance of communication over these matters between two different countries. Look at the problems with parts of the Asian community with girls disappearing from school, having been sent to Pakistan, etc to get married.

OhForBoonessSake · 01/02/2011 22:59

i dont see why there cant be something done though. would it be so hard to have an agreement made between irleand na dteh uk that tehy will communicate on this?

Cain · 01/02/2011 23:00

slartybartfast Tue 01-Feb-11 22:39:39
i wonder what would happen if you were a gay gypsy?

is it a taboo?

anyone?

Statistics show that must be a reality but I suspect it is buried so deeply it never comes out...unless its in the form of violence towards women...I imagine that is likely. Am I wrong?

slartybartfast · 01/02/2011 23:02

i dont spose we will find out the answer cain?..

slartybartfast · 01/02/2011 23:03

and re your questions of children leaving school etc., i spose Gysies Know Their Rights.

or something.

they are not necessarily going to confirm to Services

Cain · 01/02/2011 23:05

These women come under the juristiction of british law.

Their protection should be a priority shouldn't it?

slartybartfast · 01/02/2011 23:06

but i doubt the women would go for help, they would be ostracised

Cain · 01/02/2011 23:07

Sorry hang on, Ch 4 reports on 16 yr old girls getting married. It doesn't just start as soon as they hit 16 does it?

The culture of statutory actual rape should be investigated.

maighdlin · 01/02/2011 23:18

this show gets more and more depressing every week. i can't even put in to words how it makes me feel. its fucked up. they can't even read and write!! the girls and to some extent the boys, are trapped in their culture. there are never given the opportunity to learn of other ways of doing things and treating people and choosing their own life. i wonder how many of these slaves housewives could have done more in their life had they been given the chance? even the precious boys aren't given a chance to get an education, travel etc.

and, as been asked many times, where the hell does the money for these weddings come from???

conculainey · 01/02/2011 23:36

It is not illegal to remove a child from a school at 13 years old, they can have a home education up until 16 years old. I saw no mention of not being able to read or write in tonights program. The travellers are generally not accepted into schools and are constantly bullied plus they cannnot stay in the schools because they are constantly forced to move from one place to another and to change schools. At the end of the day no one is going to give a traveller a job so a normal education is useless to them, they learn skills and trades from their parents that see them through their lives such as engineering, building and metal working. Who is going to give a traveller with an I.T degree a job? simple..no one.

kirriemummy · 01/02/2011 23:51

Hi,

I just wanted to add a wee bit of extra information - I think that we should remember that no documentary is totally unbias and this one in particular is focussing on the very different aspects of traveller culture because the shocking and contraversial will pull in more viewers. In the first session of the Scottish Parliament, the equal opportunities committee commissioned a report on the lives and issues facing gypsy travellers in Scotland, and as part of my job at the time I got to read through a lot of the oral and written evidence presented by travellers to the Committee. It offers quite a different picture than this programme. I think there is a number of things I think haven't been addressed, and instead of helping outsiders understand travelling lifestyles I have seen through my facebook friends and people I have spoken to that it is actually causing people to be even more hostile, if that's possible. I do have a couple of specific issues:

The programme really hasn't shown the hostillity shown to traveller children when they go to school, not just from other pupils, but from teaching staff. The biggest reason traveller childrendon't return to school isn't due to being pulled out by their parents so they can clean, it's because of the bullying and discrimination that their kids face. Also, it is extremely difficult to give a child a stable school life if they are constantly being evicted from their sites due to planning disputes and so on. Some traveller communities have set up schools and training facilities for their children within sites, but again it is very difficult to sustain this if there is the constant threat of eviction. Reading some of the stories about the treatment of traveller children in schools made my hair curl, and there is no way I would ever willingly put a child of mine through that. While it is a parent's responsibility to ensure a child is educated, it is a local authority's responsibility to ensure the high quality of that education, and to ensure that every child in their area has access to it. Administration difficulties are not an excuse at all- you can be damn sure they would find them if they thought they owed them money.

I do think that the costumes and in particular the way the children were dancing was really innapropriate - also the thing about grabbing. However, the way to address this is not to demonise the culture or (as I suspect may be the case here) put it on telly to be pointed at like a circus freak show. The only way you can change practices like that is building up trust between communities, not by pushing them even further apart.

There are not enough sites for gypsy travellers and the sites they are given by the local authorities are substandard wasteland where most people wouldn't let their dogs live. In many case travellers have no choice but to park up in laybys and car parks, because there is nowhere else for them to go. Even if they do wish to buy/rent houses, very often they are priced out of the market, or just refused becasue of who they are. I thought the lady who said in last weeks show that the land they would use is being sold off to supermarkets had a good point. Why should we, as non travellers have any say over whether people should travel, much less try to force people out of doing so through taking land away from them? If travellers suddenly got the upper hand, and started forcing us settled people into static caravans I'm sure that we would be shouting about our human rights pretty quickly.

I think that there is a lot of discussion about travellers on this site, and in the media in general, but what surprises me a little is that there are no travellers speaking for themselves. I do think that a lot of people are passing judgement without ever expecting to have to justify it to a member of the community they are passing judgement on. If the reactions to this programme are what I have seen in my small circle are universal, I think its likely to cause even more distrust and seperation between communities that historically have co-existed, and shown equal respect o each other, and that seems to me to be a huge wasted opportunity.

One of the things that the evidence brought home to me was that gypsy travellers are the only ethnic group in Britain who it is socially acceptable to discriminate against. I would say that some of the people who have commented on the travellers should try substituting the words indian, paki or chink where they have said traveller and see if they still feel comfortable with what they are saying.

If you'd like to have a look at the evidence I was referring to you can find it here:

www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/committees/historic/equal/or-00/eo00-1302.htm#Col687

sorry for the huge post but its something that has always been close to my heart.

Pixel · 02/02/2011 00:07

"Even if they do wish to buy/rent houses, very often they are priced out of the market"

Please tell me you are joking. I've never seen so much money being splashed about in my life! What they spend on one wedding would easily buy the house I'm renting, probably twice over.

conculainey · 02/02/2011 00:21

Pixel. They are priced out of the market by people who do not want the travellers living there so they have no option other than to move on, there have been several cases were travellers have settled down in legal sites and homes they have bought only to be burned out by the locals.

kirriemummy · 02/02/2011 00:22

Actually the programme pointed out that no one speaks about how much is spent on weddings, so you don't know how much has been splashed around. But more importantly it's not for me to tell someone else how to live, or how to spend their money. I wouldn't presume to tell anyone how much to spend on their daughter's wedding, where they should live, or make assumptions about their financial status, just as I would find it incredibly rude if someone was to do that to me.

Cain · 02/02/2011 00:33

Some interesting points kirriemummie, I grew up in north west scotland and our community was often visited by travellers (I didn't learn that they were gypsies, pikeys or anything to look down upon until I moved to england) but I never witnesses the kind of behaviour I am seeing on this programme.

The worst I experienced was when a teenager wanted a go on my chopper bike and I said 'no' and he called me a 'fucking bitch' it was the first time I had been sworn at, I was about 10 and was gobsmacked. But he still didn't get a shot of my bike! Grin

The programme is depressing, but I'm not sure its totally representative? Or was I too young to realise way back then.

conculainey · 02/02/2011 00:41

The term "Pikey" certainly does not help matters either, hateful word.

WetAugust · 02/02/2011 00:44

I can understand how they get away with taking their daughters out of school at 13. SS in this country concentrate on 'soft targets', while those really in need of help go undetected.. The traveler community would be too much like hard work for the SS to investigate.

What i don't understand is why Bridget senior who had escaped DV was hapy for her daughter to marry into that way of life. She knows what it involves and one would have hoped she could have offered her daughter an escape from it.

When I was having DS there was a very young traveller girl on the ward. She had to ask for help to tick the menu card as she couldn't read. I thought then that she muct have been unusual so it's depressing to see that 20 years on it's still commonplace.

conculainey · 02/02/2011 00:49

As already said earlier on this thread, its not illegal to take a child out of school at 13 years old, anyone can do it and it has nothing to do with SS.

WimpleOfTheBallet · 02/02/2011 00:52

August...wat I gathered from Bridget's story as tha her own parents had got her out of her marriage by buying her a van of her own and hiding her from her husband...this would indicate that the community at large had supported her in leaving her abusive husband...and so she would still be very much part of the community.

Hence her own daughter would still marry into it.

To her and her family, their community is their community...they're still travellers...even in a house.

Cain · 02/02/2011 00:52

conculainey Wed 02-Feb-11 00:41:49
The term "Pikey" certainly does not help matters either, hateful word.

Its used in england, I'm not sure how it is anymore offensive than gypsy or traveller but then not being english I am not up to speed with your derrogatory terms.

I do wonder what relevance language has in terms of the complete social neclect and abuse suffered by our neighbours on the grounds that the don't conform to the renting/owning norm.

WimpleOfTheBallet · 02/02/2011 00:55

I think that the communities are on the way to changing...the very fact that this programme has been made is a sign of that. Look at Noreen who has a job...she has no intenion of relying on a husband for money...she said so.

She won't be he only girl like that.

I forsee however, a fascination with travellers from the point of non travelling girls..who would like to be part of a life which involved huge dresses and a caravan to call your own.

conculainey · 02/02/2011 00:56

Its not my derrogatory term nor am I English either, the term is widely used in England to describe the Irish and I find it offensive

WimpleOfTheBallet · 02/02/2011 00:56

Pikey is offensive becuase it originally referred to tramps..."The Pike" was the old name for workhouse and roving trams of the last cntury went from pike to pike as they walekd the length of the ountry begging.

Not travellers...but tramps.

kirriemummy · 02/02/2011 00:58

While chopper rage is definately not on (!) I think that could be any nasty kid.... doesn't make it right though. Until 50 years ago travellers generally made their living by travelling around remote communities selling hardware and passing on news. They were seen by the communities they went around as providing an essential service, and were very much respected. With car ownership, mass communication, migration to cities, their livelyhood has gone, and hostility has grown steadily. Pikey is a horrible word, but again, its fairly socially acceptable.

WimpleOfTheBallet · 02/02/2011 00:59

cain I do wonder what relevance language has in terms of the complete social neclect and abuse suffered by our neighbours on the grounds that the don't conform to the renting/owning norm.

Social neglect? This is an ancient and very distinct community...they have been abused in terms of land...but socially they have made their own rules and lived by them.