My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding Channel 4

[sailorsgal]

Anyone watching.

Therefore if they attend only 100 days a year then by the age of 11 they will really only be equivalent of year three at best!

Darlene,

Only just came back online. I am seriously offended by what you have said about me. I am neither racist nor thick. I used scottish statistics because I am Scottish, and didnt look at the UK stats. And quoting stats does not make me racist- it makes me able to back up my arguments. I also have the ability to detect and use irony, which puts me at a step up the ladder than you.

Ohforboonessake - Thank you for standing up for me.

Normantebbit- I tend not to read wikipedia as a trusted source of statistics, but even if the ones you read are true, shouldn't we as fellow human beings be doing our damndest to try and help, not sit on the sidelines moralising?

more generally a lot of the arguments against travellers not following the rules of society seem to be made on the basis of a group of teenagers playing paintball on a 16th birthday party and bad driving by teenage boys...with the greatest respect, have you guys ever actually been teenagers? I was a nice middle class girl who went to a nice suburban school, and a boy in my year joyrode down a housing estate and crashed into a busstop that a granny was standing at (she was fine) and we were banned from a particular hotel in france for 4 years because of our inability to follow rules. I suppose that means that white middle class scottish people are a blight on society? No, it means that everyone, regardless of their culture's, brains switch off from the age of 12-20.

I am so glad that travellers are standing up and speaking about the programme - thank you for highlighting the links.

Last thing- gene pool? genetics investigations? seriously? The last person to carry out genetics 'research' on gypsy travellers was Aribert Hein. Look him up on wikipedia...

I wonder what they feel about being presented with a comedy 'slant' because I do think the programme is put together/edited to make the viewers laugh

Kirriemummy - don't tell me how to use statistics. As you seem to be implying that everyone on the thread is a fascist/racist numpty, I have copied and pasted an extract gor your perusal. It is all sourced. I don't tend to cite wiki as a source but this is mumsnet and I have three kids to look after.

"It has long been recognised that the health of Irish Travellers is significantly poorer than that of the general population in Ireland. This is evidenced a 2007 report published in Ireland states that over half of Travellers do not live past the age of 39 years.[27] Another government report of 1987 found:

From birth to old age, they have high mortality rates, particularly from accidents, metabolic and congenital problems, but also from other major causes of death. Female Travellers have especially high mortality compared to settled women.[28]

In 2007, the Department of Health and Children in the Republic of Ireland, in conjunction with the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety in Northern Ireland, commissioned the University College Dublin School of Public Health and Population Science to conduct a major cross-border study of Travellers' welfare. The study, including a detailed census of Traveller population and an examination of their health status, is expected to take up to three years to complete.[29]

Genetic studies by Miriam Murphy, David Croke, and other researchers identified certain genetic diseases such as galactosemia that are more common in the Irish Traveller population, involving identifiable allelic mutations that are rarer among the rest of the community. Two main hypotheses have arisen, speculating whether:

this resulted from marriages made largely within and among the Traveller community, or
suggesting descent from either an original Irish carrier long ago with ancestors unrelated to the rest of the Irish population.[30]
They concluded that: The fact that Q188R is the sole mutant allele among the Travellers as compared to the non-Traveller group may be the result of a founder effect in the isolation of a small group of the Irish population from their peers as founders of the Traveller sub-population. This would favour the second, endogenous, hypothesis of Traveller origins. No estimate was given for the date of the original mutation, but it is now clear that it mutated from other galactosemia-causing mutations that are found within the larger Irish population.

Oh ffs. I'm not wanting to get into an internet scrap about accademic sources- your right, this is mumsnet and I too have a kid.

I do not think that everyone on this thread is racist. I don't make assumptions about people based on limited information.

I do think that the idea of saying that people would submit to genetic research because they would do anything for a bit of cash is slightly distasteful.

I think that gypsy travellers have a rough ride in life for a lot of reasons and my instinct is always to stand up for those who arent around to stand up for themselves.

Because of that, on this thread I have been called anti scottish, racist, thick, and vapid, and I could go on. So I'm not really too bothered if you want to get shirty about the fact I said wikipedia is not a reliable source.

Great post Norm and indeed full of useful and well researched information, simple rules apply here, the travellers lead hard lives working in all weathers and conditions as they had to do while constructing Britains highways, rail network and canals since the turn of the century. Although it was acceptable to use this cheap scource of manual labour to build the empire it was not and is still not acceptable to have the same people live in the same houses, eat in the same places or be educated in the same schools or live in the same towns. As a result these people have had to stick together and be pushed from pillar to post as they have always had to do, you would honestly think that the world has improved , not for these people. They lead hard lives and die young which is a shame and disgrace in this day and age. In a way I envy them, when the country gets a bit of snow its stops dead in its tracks but to these people its just another day and they get on with it as they have always done, I admire them and think that we as a modern race of people can learn a lot from them.

why is their gene pool your business Norman ?
I find your post disgusting.

What about the Japanese? they refused to allow any contact with foreigners for 400 years . they just closed off their gates.

WHat about second generation immigrants in any country, who tend to marry people from the same ethnic background for cultural reasons

What about villagers around the world? Tribes?

To me, the person who conjured up the hypothesis that the travellers' gene pool must be researched, is not well in the head.

I envy travellers. The thought of living a free (albeit short) existence is quite seductive. It sounds like there needs to be a feminist revolution within the ranks, but that's the business of the female travellers, not ours.

Many "settled" people who live stationary lives have such circumscribed lives, worrying about their mortgage or their extensions and bleurgh...

Fellatio
No, when people talk about damage to the environment they're talking about housing estates cropping up like mushrooms on green-belt land; bleach from housework running into drains and gutters, then on into rivers and streams for the fish to become mutated; or air miles which pollute the environment, or all the factories in China where you can no longer see the sky in many places so that lots of tat can be produced for consumers in the rich countries

That is real environmental destruction,

A bit of rubbish left about is nothing by comparison

Very unrealistic to expect uneducated and downtrodden women, who have been taught for ceturies that they are second class citizens, to suddenly have the confidence, skills and wherewithal to RISE UP and over throw their dominant male overlords!!!!

Oh sorry I took it as 200.5 days not 200 half days !

No Sakura, I understand pefectly what 'damage to the environment' means in the general sense. I think you and I are talking at cross-purposes!

When you said 'I don;t think gypsies do that much damage to the environment at all' I assumed you were disagreeing with someone who had complained that they left an environmental mess wherever they went. I was just pointing out that talking about their limited use of household cleaning products compareds to that of a large house was not really the point!

BookcaseFullofBooks Tue 01-Feb-11 21:33:57

A diddakoi is a person who is of mixed heritage - Roma mother and gorgie father for example.

Not according to Romany gypsies its not,a diidycoy is a traveller that has no Romany blood.Offspring of one Romany parent and one gorgie parents are known as mumpers.

I don't understand why people are getting so upset about congenital diseases. Surely if there is a genetic link to life threatening conditions then this can be screened for , people can be educated and the leper healthcare provided then perhaps infant mortity rates would not be so high.

In s small population genetic conditions have a greater chance of bring passed on. Travelling people need to be educated about this.
What is disgusting about that? I truly do not understand why a post quoting a study into why traveller mortality rates are so high is considered 'disgusting'

Can someone enlighten me?

And I never said 'it must be investigated' I think that was another poster.

I think statistics like these below are 'disgusting.' The point I am trying to make us that this lifestyle or culture has a serious effect on its people. It's not just about big dresses and cakes, there are serious issues too.
"On average there are ten times more driving fatalities within the Traveller community. At 22%, this represents the most common cause of death among Traveller males. Roughly ten times more infants die under the age of two, while a third of Travellers die before the age of 25. In addition, 80% of Travellers die before the age of 65. Some 10% of Traveller children die before their second birthday, compared to just 1% of the general population. In Ireland, 2.6% of all deaths in the total population were for people aged under 25, versus 32% for the Travellers.[35][36]

And unfortunately my iPhone decided the word 'leper' is a good substitute for the word 'proper.' in my first post.

Sigh.

I'll get me coat.

I'll see you out Norman

But how did that mother who was bringing up her children without a husband manage to afford the great cake, great dress, new caravan etc etc? I'd like to know because I'm obviously not managing my finances as well as she is!

sakura you are making a mountain out of a molehill out of Norman's comment. Comparing the gypsy and Traveller community to the Japanese is pointless - there were rather more Japanese in Japan than there are Gypsies in the UK. The point is, their gene pool is small and so problems arising from inbreeding are inevitable. The same as in the section of the British Pakistani community who insist on marrying first cousins. They have a truly disproportionately massive problem with consanguineous births afflicted by genetic diseases and disabilities, but it is very much hushed up for fear of it looking like a cultural attack or a racist/anti-muslim agenda. If something is true then we should not be afraid to say it.

I did wonder waht the leper was all about.

My dissertation was about birth defects in early 20th century due to in-breeding in The Forest of Dean and how they lessened following the opening of a bicycle shop in the main town!!
It doesn't make me a racist because I studied this!

For those wondering how Bridget senior managed financially without a husband, and how she had such a big house, I imagine she had four or more children, so she would have been housed accordingly by the state. CB for several children, plus she and her son clearly had quite serious disabilities, so long term sickness benefits, DLA etc, for two, and probably some carer's allowances in there somewhere as well.

In fact, by the look of him I think it's quite likely her son had Hurler's syndrome, but that's just a guess.

I'm not saying that would necessarily add up to an amount that could afford a wedding like that - only that she clearly couldn't work, and I don't think she was living on thin air!

Mumsnet should be renamed Judgenet

Bossyboots.com?
I'm-right-you're-wrong.co.uk
boredandstuckathome.org
go-online-to-pick-a-fight.com????

Oh I'm with

I'm-right-you're-wrong.org

Because I am always right (apart from when my phone is involved)