The Hospital

[LadyOfScoffleTheEasterEggs]

Anyone watching?

I cannot believe they just ODed that girl!

God, I just watched this on 4+1 and it's one of the most depressing things I have seen.

I was a teenage mother (got pregnant at 18, had DD at 19). And in some ways, I can relate to a lot of the things said on the programme.

I bought into the myth that having a baby would give me unconditional love and someone to love unconditionally. I was a screwed-up, high achieving, middle-class teenager that wanted a baby. (Although, ironically, I was not planning to get pregnant when DD was conceived).

I was also very selfish, knew nothing about the realities of having a baby and DD's father buggered off as soon as I told him I was pregnant.

I suppose the difference between myself and many of the teenage mothers on the programme is that I had family support, financial support from family, educational aspirations and a desire to do the best for my child. So, I read every book under the sun, aimed for a natural birth, breastfed for 2.5 years, went to university (Oxford ) with DD, when she was 1.5 years - she went to nursery, I did an undergraduate degree, but with sleepless nights from an insomniac toddler, not late night parties!

I'm now a trainee lawyer-to-be, DD is 8, all is good.

But, if I hadn't had the background that I do, or the support from family, then who knows.

God knows what the solution is. Definitely not more sex education - everyone knows how not to get pregnant. Somehow we need a revolution in attitudes and culture, whereby a baby isn't seen as a solution to one's problems. Or a meal ticket for someone with absolutely no aspirations.

But I certaintly felt no sense of shame or embarrassment in being a pregnant teenager. I wasn't concerned about people's opinions of me. Which is probably a teen-centric point of view. Selfish, head-strong and difficult to reason with!

Well I do think they see the HV more often. I think there was an assumption that as a mum in her 30s with a husband and a house then I was ok to be left to get on with it when I just didn't have a clue. Honestly, I'm sure I knew less than many teenage mums.

Of course I'd read everything but when baby actually arrived I was terrified.

Of course, everyone's in the same position myredcardigan. No one really knows what they are doing, it's a learning process for the parents aswell as the baby. The books contraict each other so this make things so much worse. I would have been so grateful for some help, ds's is 10 and I still have times when I have no idea.

Really? Does everyone just have one quick visit from the HV to nose at their house and check that baby isn't sleeping in the fridge then nothing? I was desperate for support.

Yes, RSB, well done!

Thank you . My boasting moment is now over .

You can phone them, they will come out and see you when they can. If you don't contact them though they won't chase you. Just because my HV was crap it doesn't mean yours is.

this programme has really upset me, watching it on 4od now.. why dont they show you a teen mum that has actually made the most of the situation, not all us teen mums are like those wastes of space,, grrr makes me angry!!

lauren, its sensationalist tv and a programme about teen mums who do a really good job of it and support themselves just wouldn't make good viewing.

I had unprotected sex and got pregnant, I was 41

(Playing Devils Advocate here) I guess if they showed successful teenage Mums then it would encourage more feckless girls to get pregnant rather than discourage it?

Just a thought?

i agree, just hate the thought people might stereotype me into that category, some of those girls were SO selfish, it disgusts me, teens or not, im so glad i wasnt bought up like that. makes you appreciate what you have got

I watched it either with my mouth open or with tears in my eyes. That the girl would CHOOSE to have a caesarean under GA on the grounds that she was needle phobic made me hopping mad. She had a cheek and mouth piercing ("but that didn't hurt" apparently...) and in spite of all the advice from doctors and midwives and anaethetists (with them all counselling her right up to the wire) she KNEW BEST! As someone whose GA caesarean was forced on them it made me weep. There she was, the moment of her child's birth being handed to her on a plate and she turned it down. Through sheer obtuseness.

Although I wanted to slap her for her smoking and general stubborn, bullish, lazy behaviour I also felt very sorry for her. Here was a girl whose mother was patently useless (I particularly loved her comments when her daughter defensively/proudly commented that she hadn't wanted a cigarette since the baby was born and she then cackled to her lumpen husband that she'd had a fag at the first opportunity - terrific, lady!), who obviously felt a baby was the best thing that could happen to her. I can see why with her rather sad and opportunity-free life she would have felt that way. In her shoes I'd have probably had a baby too.

You could give these teenagers endless sex education but the fact of the matter is that the majority of them get pregnant because they want to. If you have a fractured or difficult home life and are lacking in familial love and support and/or have no career aspirations then the chances are that having a baby at a young age is an appealing prospect. You get love, something that belongs to you, a 9 month window of attention and feeling 'special'. Having a baby can only seem a positive thing if life is drab and nothing is ahead of you.

Of course there are exceptions. Teenagers who make mistakes, get caught out in a moment and there are still huge gaps in sex education. Myths about conception need to be debunked ('you can't get pregnant the first time'; 'you can't get pregnant when you've got your period'; 'you can't get pregnant standing up', etc., etc. I'm not saying that if you give all teenagers a stable, loving home life and educate them on career choices then pregnancies won't happen, because mistakes will still be made, but the incidence may drop somewhat. Britain might lose the crown of teenage pregancies in Europe, which would be something.

Teenage mothers aren't the devil. Some are stupid, some are obtuse, but not all. Some of those mothers will do a very good job with their children and will be happy and settled. But the odds are against them doing so and I personally find it sad that so many teenagers have nothing in their lives (no love, no aspirations for a career or further education, etc.) and use a pregnancy and baby to fill the gap.

My only real moment of despair came at the end when they were having the postnatal workshop with the jolly midwife lady. They all sat there giggling about how they all wanted another baby and I just felt despair at the inevitable. That two years from now they'd have another baby with all the thoughtless fecundity of youth.

On that last point I'm jealous. Two years on and STILL not pregnant!

K

fully agree with kitstwins that was put perfectly, every word. i am VERY proud to be an exception

when i first found out i was pregnant my MW put me in contact with a 'young mums and dads' group for expectant teens and young parents. kind of like the one you saw at the end of the programme. me and dp went along expecting to make friends with people in the same position as us and oh my days i cant even describe these people..

i dont like to judge people on first impressions but to me they didnt look very tidy or seem to care about appearance, we had to sit down and introduce ourselves etc, thats when i realised my dp was the only male in the room!! half the girls wouldnt even talk allowed and refused to say anything about themselves and just sit and giggle and whisper amongst themselves. we got asked about the pregnancy planned unplanned etc. one girl said she wanted a baby because she couldnt get a job and needed the money.. not those words exactly but along those lines. and another girl said her older sister had one so she wanted one. when asked "what would you most like support with" she said "applying for benefits and a house"

Dp and i were

was the only young mums and dads meeting we went to

agree with kits too - beautifully put.

not all teenage mums are like the ones in this programme
i was a first time mum to ds when i was 18 i was married and we had a place to live
i didnt know what was going on i was totally naieve but nothing like the girls on last nights show.

I'm probably the only one but I wasn't too convinced by the specialist midwife. The girls didn't seem to have any respect for her and she was very condescending. She didn't have much warmth and almost chucked advice at the girls without thinking about what they needed or wanted (that crown thing was just lame).
I'd also make the point that sex education is crap...really crap. Apart from the general quality, there are many many parents that will not let their children have any form of sex education.
Sadly there will always be young girls like Lisa but there will also be many successful, responsible, committed young mums that do a fantastic job with and without support.
Whatever anyone thinks, tennage mums DO need support, advice and guidance and should be given the opportunity to make the best of themselves and their babies.

I shall get off my soap box now- I'm not a mum of teens but I do work with them in a variety of settings so could relate to every one of the people inthe programme last night.

Oh and I do sex education that is just fantastic [smug]

hayls, don;t think those girls had respect fora nyone, least of all themselves

what was telling, was at towards teh end, when lisa was saying she regretted missing the first few minuts of her baby;s life and the birht itself. she knew she had made a mistake, hopefully it is part of a learning curve for her

the medics must be banging their heads against the wall, how do you explain pre eclampsia to a girl who takes what her mates say and what she hears on the telly as more believable than a consultant obstetrician??

frightening the contraception message is not being heard

and that the blokes all leave

even the ones that want the baby

there was no infrastructure though for the girls, no framework of normal family life was there? no dads in the picture for them. they want an escape, someone to love and someone to lvoe them.

I totally agree lulu- if they have no idea of what 'normal' life is like then it's almost impossible to achieve. That's why it's so important for them to get support to realise what they can achieve.
It is possible to get teens like those shown to show respect for themselves and others but I didn't feel she was managing it very well. Committing to building up a positive relationship over a few months generally results in two-way respect and trust if it's done in the right way. However, there are always exceptions and Lisa would definitely have tested me to the limits!

It's all really sad and my biggest hope is that I can prevent my dd- and my ds- from experiencing so many of the things that I encounter in my work

I had such massive probloems with so much of this programme, especially with it's ideologiccal tone and judgemental attitude of all the health professionals.

They just stated things like 'teenagers bodies are not mature enough to have babies' without any backup, proof or detail. The fact is, if nature was so stupid to make it possible for teens to get pregnant without their bodies being ready for it, out species would have died out millions of years ago. To say a fertile teen is at more risk getting pregnant and giving birth than a 30 year old woman goes against all the statistical data. It's just nonsense and these programme makers should be ashamed of themselves.

Watching the programme, I found their level of interfearance with the births the main issue of why teen pragnancies and births supposedly bacame 'high risk'.

Also the idea that the girls mush shoulder all the responnsibily of the cost to the state. Where are the documentories folowing the teen boys who get girls pregnant and then desert them? Where is the other side to this story?

and all the girls seemed totally capable and loving parents to me

The specialist said somehting gilb like, 'these girls have no idea what they are getting into' - news flash, neither to most first time parents, whatever their age. This is more because parenting is pushed to the peripherals of our society, hidden at home and not part of dynamic life where it should be, not because teenage girls are idiots.