Should I marry a murderer? Netflix

[IAmKerplunk]

Has anyone watched this? I have just finished it. Honestly I feel mixed about Caroline. Don’t want to say too much in case others haven’t finished it.

I remember the story being reported but didn’t know how much else went on in the lead up to the trial.

I think they were trying to speed up decomposition of the body.

She’s very conflicted about her view of Sandy which is understandable in the circumstances. My impression is that when she went back to the farm she was very in love with him but at some point there was a big fall-out that wasn’t covered in the doc.

To those asking about keys and manuals in tractors, farmers leave keys in machinery all the time. The brothers doing that on a remote estate is perfectly normal. Also manuals in machinery is a requirement for manual halving and safety reasons.

I feel for her. My boss told me about the programme today. He didn’t have nice words to say about her. I really feel for her. I didn’t like her behaviour in episode one but as this went on you can clearly see how much the murder has impacted her. That prosecution solicitor at the end was awful. The police were terrible too. The only person with any compassion was the female support worker.

I just finished watching this documentary and I found it to be so interesting, especially in regard to human behaviour. Caroline states from the beginning that she was devastated after her previous breakup and was somewhat vulnerable when she met Sandy. But what really surprised me was after he had admitted the crime, and she reported him to the police, that she continued to have some sort of relationship with him, it’s like she was able to split herself and/or reality in two. I know she kind of alludes to this in the documentary but how did she engage in a relationship with him and continue to record him? I found that really off putting and confusing tbh. I absolutely admire her decision to report him, that must have been so difficult and confusing for her, but how did she push those feelings to one side and record him while, presumably, engaging in an intimate relationship with him? And then he finds out about what she did the relationship continues? They both strike me as traumatised people, his childhood was very tough and no doubt contributed to how he ended up but I feel there’s more to Caroline too. As some else mentioned, her behaviour was very immature and she comes across as someone who makes many poor decisions. By the end she mentions being manic and psychosis which would explain the stealing of the tractor and looking for the bike in the waterfall etc. I’m glad she’s managed to recover somewhat and move on but I feel there’s other stuff going on for her, I haven’t a clue what that might be but she still comes across as vulnerable. I also think her new partner has many similarities in terms of appearance to Sandy.

@junebugalice I think the splitting of reality makes absolute sense in her role as a Pathologist. I don’t think it’s a career for someone who couldn’t compartmentalise in that way.

Yes @stayathomegardener very true. It’s like there was two very distinct parts to her personality though. On the one hand, she knew she had to conform to the rules of society (or maybe they were her own personal morals?) so she reported him. On the other hand, she was able to “move on” with him, to an extent. I think she really did love him and by Sandy declaring his secret to her, voluntarily, she used that as evidence of him being a good guy caught up in a terrible situation. She was definitely trauma bonded to him, she was devastated after the sentencing hearing. I wouldn’t be so sure she wouldn’t be in a relationship with him again in the future when he gets out. I really hope for her sake she wouldn’t though.

Can't recommend this enough for more detail about the case. Caroline's call to the police isn't until halfway through.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002h383

"I did think her mum seemed a bit hysterical about the threat Sandy posed to them, he hadn't committed a violent murder and from what was shown wasn’t generally violent or abusive."
Seriously? They looked like very respectable people, who have just found out their already vulnerable daughter is still in a relationship with a guy they've met only once; who has turned out to have killed someone and buried him on his estate; and she still visits him at said estate, which also happens to be in the middle of nowhere - and you think she's a bit hysterical?! 🙄

The death pit reference wasn't for the documentary, though. He was buried in a death pit, or midden.

I finished watching this last night and can actually understand why she kept going back to him.

First of all, she fell madly in love with someone very quickly off the back of a previous poor relationship and clearly had some underlying insecurities.

When he told her what he did, she did the right thing by telling police and says she had mentally prepared for that to be the last time she'd ever see him, but the police clearly didn't prepare her well for what would follow and that they'd be out until they had proper evidence. She couldn't simply just turn her phone off and ignore him so had to go along with it, all the while taking an increasing amount of drugs and alcohol.

I also felt there must have been an element of disassociation to the victim and the crime. She has been told it happened, but has never heard of or seen the victim before and has seen absolutely no evidence that a crime even took place - there's nothing for her to mentally connect with, if that makes sense?

Then when the body is discovered, she's removed from her job, the one thing that might have helped keep her grounded, and it's covid so she's even more isolated.

All that, fuelled by excessive amounts of alcohol and drugs, its' not that hard to see why she returned to him. Even if she was still scared.

I felt quite sad for her watching the scenes where she was trying to find the bike. It was so clear how unwell she was.

Although I did find all the filming of herself throughout a little odd, it did make it very interesting to see the change in her over the time.

I’m puzzled why her parents didn’t go to court with her to support her. Surely most parents would go.

She was an adult though and we don’t know if they’d wanted to but she’d said no. It’s possible their hands were tied.

While it isn't something I'd have done, I can understand all the filming. Almost like a video diary.
She was terrified, confused, alone, still in love, isolated.
Add this to the fact that a LOT of people were filming their every move during covid, and that many of us felt uneasy or overwhelmed or panicky or claustrophobic during covid (without having a killer as a fiance)

Maybe she told them she didn’t want them to go.

It was a strange watch. I think her father questioned the wisdom of being involved with it at all and her mother enabled her 'mania'. I felt as though they'd both been enduring her unstable behaviour for a long time.
It seemed to me, knowing someone with EUPD, that Caroline showed signs of it.
Bouncing around loving people one minute, hating and attacking them the next. Loving Sandy but then recording him, encouraging him to reveal more.
I don't think her struggles were new.
The police were negligent in their treatment of her because they didn't have a clue what they were dealing with but they should have, they knew her behaviour was erratic and should have seen how vulnerable she was.
I think she's still very unwell.

EUPD yes, absolutely some signs & signifiers. Great post. I would have definitely advised against Netflix if her parents or family/friends. What was the purpose?

What concerns me is that the twins, clients and their friends, were regulars at the Bridge of Orchy Hotel bar. It appeared that they regularly drank to excess and used drugs surely the bar staff have a duty to report drunk drivers to the Police.

She is splitting heavily
is that EUPD ?

Yep they really should. Altho I sometimes go on holiday to a tiny village resort, and there's one policeman, who drinks in the pub with the locals....

(I did report a guy I saw getting into his car after having a pint, possibly more)

It's very much part of the person I know with EUPD.

That’s a good point. With all the cyclist coverage those in bar must have had a good idea the twins were drunk/high & on right stretch of road at right time too.

I agree with all you've said. It was a perfect storm of vulnerability, and she was treated terribly by the police for doing the right thing! No wonder she ended up down the path she did, she deserved care and protection from the police and got absolutely nothing. They made things worse for her.

I really hope she's doing OK now, and is at peace with her decisions. She did the right thing and it's not her fault she got sucked back into a relationship with him.

If you watch the bbc documentary it was aid that it was known locally. There was even another tip off about them earlier but it was anonymous and no further information was given. I think they were questioned but said nothing so in the absence of any evidence it was dropped.

Her first mistake was driving 1hr 30 for a first date. That showed him she was a pushover. I wouldn't go on a first date where the guy makes no effort to come and take me out.

Pretty clear she is infatuated with him to this day and that she would have married him and said nothing if he hadn't helped asked her to help move the body. She only went to the police because she realised he didn't love her and was using her. If it wasn't for that, she would have carried on with her ridiculous "fairytale romance"

She's incredibly annoying and immature even 5 years later. Hard to square with her profession.

I found her so immature with all the filming of her smoking and drinking and the filters, yes this is what teenagers do not grown women!
Her remembering absolutely everything and what the twins were telling her in detail, even when she was under the influence of drink drugs, it didn't ring true,
And then her saying she was having a manic moment when she was stealing the tractor, yet remembered everything about it, surely if you were going through something like that you wouldn't be able to recall it all,