Call the midwife part 2

[TwinklyFawn]

I know that my first thread isn't full yet. I just wanted to create the second thread before i forgot.

Vets in the past in most places saw farm animals and pets. It was only in large cities you had vets dedicated to pets, and some vets did not view them as proper vets.

I'm very disappointed by the new romance - not that I don't like the characters separately but I just can't believe in the speed of it or them as a couple.

And.....I know it's a drama and not a documentary but I think you'll find 'no fault divorce' is a very modern thing! I certainly needed grounds for my divorce in the 1990s (although it didn't have to be adultery) and CTM is supposed to be set in the 70s??? Even if they both consent, they'd have to have been separated for at least two years and I thought at first they were only geographically separated so that wouldn't count?........must try not to get overinvested.....🤣

I can remember the huge hooha over making an international call even in the late 80s, I cannot imagine the logistical nightmare and cost of an international divorce in the 70s. Unless Cyril can divorce Lucille for abandonment in her absence. And if he can I imagine it would take years.

Mostly farm animals, but at least twice for pets! I listened to a couple of the audiobooks last year. Probably less likely in an inner city practice though.

Ooooh Google...divorce reform in England and Wales 1969 meant living apart for 2 years was grounds for divorce. Cyril would know that.
I live in Ireland where divorce wasn't allowed!

I'm also surprised that Cyril didn't wake up with a very wet knee. My cats were cuddled with inco sheets in their blanket sheets when they were PTS.

Awww. It's so sad when they leave you.

I thought sister Juliene’s reaction was not shock but more a kind of, ooh what on earth can I say in this situation. It was the first time this nurse had raised the issue with her though she probably assumed it went on. So her response was to ask a question that offered the chance for further discussion.
After the last episode everyone was worried Cyril would be moping over Lucile forever with no resolution. I came on here expecting everyone to be pulling the party poppers for the way it has been tied up.
I know it can be quite predictable but I will say again this is Sunday night viewing which I appreciate. There’s plenty of racy twisty plot type stuff out there is that is your bag.

I'm an episode behind but I think the colour on my tv is off as Sister Julienne appears to be wearing fuschia pink lipstick which I'm sure is not allowed in the order!

I've been thinking about the racism and the changing times in CTM over the last few days.

There is, I think, another minor but fundamental change going on alongside this and it pervades the NHS/public sector agencies today.

In the early series, however poor or disadvantaged the women were, the midwives, when the women were often vulnerable, always used the women's names, usually Mrs x, but sometimes their first name. The women were afforded the actual courtesy and humanity of their names. Whilst the racism element is wholly unacceptable, it emerges alongside Nurse Hyland calling the awful woman "Honey". That was unacceptable too.

There's something about the history of nursing/midwifery and social history that could be explored here. Why and when did women lose the right to be addressed by name and title by their carers. It certainly pisses me off to be called "darling", "lovely", etc., and also to be referred to by the nurse by my first name whilst in the presence of a Dr who they call Dr/Mr/Miss Bloggs.

I wonder what Miss Higgins would say.

Trixie has regularly used 'sweetie' to patients from day one. It's not a 1970 issue or a nurse Hyland issue.

That's right actually. But did the others? I don't remember any of the sisters doing it, or Jenny, Chummy, Barbara, etc.. On the whole the women and their families were addressed formally. A far cry from my experiences in the mid/late 90s on the other side of London.

Well I would rather any medical person was concentrating on my treatment needs rather than trying to remember my name. Nurses must see so many people over the course of their working week, it’s a big ask for them to know all their names. A simple sweetie/darling negates the need. Of course they know the names of the doctors they work with/for.

Chummy was prone to an 'old stick' or similar, Lucille used 'precious'.

It is a crowd splitter - some people like it others not so much. On the Casualty thread posters are pretty united in their hate of a syrupy nurse and her endless stream of endearment terms.

It is one reason I use my real first name not my middle name by which I am know to NHS staff, NHS dentist, hairdresser, Amazon etc, I cannot stand people using my first name as it is so informal when I don't know them, but I am not so rude as to say "Mrs Sidebottom if you please...." so the last laugh is on me when they use a first name by which I am not known and everyone wins.

If someone used a word like love or honey to me I won't like it but I wouldn't say anything as what is the point in upsetting people?

On the racism issue in 1970 I think we all knew a lot about that - many of us including my parents bombed in England in WWII knew full well we were fighting to ensure no discrimination against jews, blacks, gays etc. So in a sense we as a nation gave our whole wealth, heart and life to fight racism and Nazism and in 1970 that was not so long before. My father was repeatedly called up and then it was dropped for national service in the 1950s and my parents suffered under ratioining even post war. However there was certainly racism then as now of course. I am glad the Call the M series deals with all these issues even if at times it is not quite accurate as to how things would have been in a time I am just about old enough to remember.

I also made the connection to the divorce reform. By 1980 I was even studying in my fun module of family law on my LLB those then new laws - the one ground for divorce of irretrievable breakdown. However then and now priests are not really supposed to divorce (never mind marry in cases of Catholic ones) so it is going to be a fun storyline they are developing. I don't think they accurately portray class divides then never mind now - they like to pretend people of all classes always mixed then which is not always accurate.

My mother was one of the early members of the NCT in those days when women were being forced into hospital to give birth, shaved and all sorts. She had all babies except for me (the first) at home, the last one in 1969 but it was a bit of a battle as home birth was becoming much harder to achieve even if the woman wanted it. She would certainly have supported the getting up and moving after birth ideas too. I saw a youtube programme about a hotel in Korea or Japan where women can go after birth to be cared for for quite a while - a post maternity place and it seemed very bad they stay in bed so long even today.

Yes, and Lucille called her patients "precious". Also seem to remember Chummy using "old thing" or "old bean" in the same circumstances

It can be patronising in some contexts I agree but seems more appropriate in the context of helping a labouring woman, all about the intent I think and connecting with warmth.

I work in a school and used to use terms like lovely or sweetheart. Then my deputy head said she had read a study that children needed to hear their names half a dozen times a day to feel 'seen'. It made me realise that these terms of endearment are actually quite impersonal and you will connect better if you use people's actual names.

Context is relevant as well.

If a medic expected me to respond to C8 whilst I'm expected to use Mr/Ms God then they are unreasonable and its particularly perjorative for women. No other profession treats their adult clients in this way IME.

If I have an ongoing relationship with a particular medic who generally uses formal titles but drops to informal when a patient is in distress or pain then I think that is understandable and a good medic should be able to judge when its appropriate.

I don't think there is anything ridiculous about expecting staff to know my name if they are providing my medical care. At least I'd know they had looked at the first page of my notes. If they don't know who I am they cannot provide me with the best advice.

I haven't suggested knowing your name is ridiculous. Have you quoted the wrong post?

Regarding the racism - the most realistic outcome for Nurse Hyland would be that the complaint is upheld and it damages her career. In the real world at least some of her colleagues would be racists and take the woman's side (but the naice kind of racist who are polite in public but raise questions in their statements).

There has also been no comment that I've noted in CTM on the role of union groups operating colour bars (in much the way they opposed equal pay for women) and the extent to which local authorities operated discriminatory practices in housing and services. This kind of day to day institutional and indvidual racism was widespread and rarely portrayed in drama such as CTM who tend to pay lip service to the issue. There was a light touch mention of Cyril struggling to get work for which he was well qualified but ultimately he did get a professional job instead of the commoner experience of taking work well below his training level.

I was responding to multiple comments on the subject, including yours which I quoted - as part of the ongoing discussion to which you were posting.

dh mother back in the 1990s was insulted when they called her by her first name in hospital, she would have been in her 70s
my own dm is insulted when a company for example rings and uses her first name, she is in her 80s
i thought it was odd when nurse, my age, called me Mrs X surname, i didnt even answer as i was very used to be called first name surname in a medical setting, and first name when having medical treatment
times have changed

The issue is not first names or surnames - its one side of a professional relationship using first names and diminutives but expecting professional titles themselves. It conveys an unequal relationship from the outset, especially when the professionals address men formally and women informally.

There is no other profession where I see this in the professional relationships. Every other professional I deal with is either mutual first names or mutual surnames. My GP practice always uses formal names to call into the appointment and in person unless the patient prefers otherwise. Its really not difficult.

This. It's an equality issue. Even a high court judge would refer to the accused with their title. Medics not so much.

I saw a clip from an old CTM and Sister Evangelina referred to a mother by her first name, was impressed she had already shaved herself and then proceeded to give her an enema. I was surprised by the first name bit, but this was the woman's fourth baby and she looked young enough to have been delivered by sister E herself!

Cyril worked as a mechanic for a long while and couldn't find work in his chosen profession. Can't remember what that was, but I'm sure it was unrelated to the social work he's doing now?