Wolf Hall - The Mirror and the Light

[virgocatlover]

Series 2 is confirmed to start Sunday 10th November.

Almost 10 years after the first series, I'm excited to see the third and final novel brought to life.

I have now gone and looked at pictures of Cranmer as played by Will Keen and I don't think it was him. Will need to watch back now!

Yes, they need name badges.

The Prime X Ray type thing would be really helpful.

Just found Cranmer elsewhere in the episode dressed as an archbishop. Still looking for the bit I meant!

Ah, OK, got it. It is him. I had remembered him in my head as a younger man in that scene. Not sure the crew's match editing worked as well as they thought!

If anyone is interested, there's a good programme called Henry viii's enforcer, about tc, on iplayer at the moment.

Apologies for general nerdiness.. Dermot MacCulloch has written an essay on the transition between clean shaven Cranmer and bearded Cranmer in portraits, and what it signified

‘And even if George did prefer men, he would still have had sex with his wife in the hope of having a son to carry on his earldom.
In the days before there was any sort of fertility treatment, it's not at all surprising that some marriages would remain childless.’

Many women suffered miscarriages and still births ( including two of HenryVIII queens, and his daughter Mary) which would not have been recorded as births. So sexual preference cannot be deduced from the lack of descendants .

I have wondered whether there might be some truth in the accusation of incest. Anne was desperate to produce a male heir to secure her position, and it must have been obvious to her from the pregnancy history of Katherine of Aragon that Henry was not the best potential sire . He had surprisingly few bastards, the only one which was acknowledged was Henry Richmond, which argues that other illegitimate sons, at least, would not have gone unnoticed. A child from the male side of her family would resemble her family, and not any other man around the court,which could have been suspicious.

I don’t really believe this! As Anne was by contemporary accounts a woman of faith.

what DID it signify????

I don't believe it either, @Allthegoodnamesarechosen . It was all created to ensure the execution of Anne. A swordsman had been sent for even before the trial was complete.
Cranmer was distraught - he was her confessor, he knew the truth.

what DID it signify????
I have to confess that I haven't read it. Looks interesting though...
Re Cranmer being distraught, another interpretation is that, with Anne's death, the Reformation could have potentially been dead in the water.
Of course, he could have been feeling both emotions.

He could.

Didn't the accusations of incest come from George Boleyn's wife (Lady Rochford)?

Cranmer probably feared for himself after Anne Boleyn's downfall, as a return to Rome would have meant his downfall. And he was right - Mary burned him even though he recanted.

I don’t remember Rafe being so critical of Cromwell in the book. There’s about one scene per episode where he sort of tells Cromwell off.

I don't think Anne was an adulterer either, no matter how desperate she was to have an heir, the dangers of it looking like someone else at court would have been huge.

Babies don't really 'look like' adults.

And that's why she was accused of incest (as she couldn't be accused of incest if it looks like a Boleyn). Not that I believe she was guilty of that, but she and George did not spend much of their youth together. There have been stories of siblings who did not spend their childhood together meeting later in life and forming some sort of attraction.

Sorry that should say - she couldn't be accused of ADULTERY if it looks like a Boleyn.

The end of the latest episode is hard to watch as it all starts to fall apart for Cromwell. Does anyone else find Norfolk quite comical? I LOL'd a few times. Not sure if it's intended.

Bernard Hill was much better. I love Timothy Spall, but he's not right for it. BH really looks like he could f* you up.

I think he's miscast as Norfolk.

Yes, the casting of Norfolk is disappointing and slightly spoils these later episodes. Bernard Hill really had that air of menace.
Are they really going to show Cromwell's botched execution?😱

I don't think they will show that, at least not graphically. I think it will end with hallucinations, going towards 'the light'.

Is this a TV pace thread? I see episode 5 is already up but I can wait until 9pm if it’s a watch together thing.

Haven’t read the books. I quickly watched series 1 to watch this new series, I can’t believe I missed it in 2015. Have caught up slowly on the 4 episodes and looking forward to episode 5. Cromwell is really dropping the ball and being careless with what he says. Maybe he’s just done holding it all together. That first episode losing his wife and kids so quickly was a shock. I didn’t know that about him.

I have loved reading this thread thank you. I listened to the podcast “Not just the Tudors” episode on Lady Rochford AKA Jane Boleyn AKA wife of George Boleyn executed with his sister Anne Boleyn. I found the bit about how she was right for the role really interesting - from the right family and circles to know the mannerisms and hospitality required for hosting international diplomats and impressing them with their looks as members of the court. Is it much different to today? Send your kids to the right school, they’ll get a good position as a SPAD through connections or the Tory comms team and end up marrying Boris 😁

I was actually quite upset at the end of the episode, even though I knew what was coming. I just love him so much.

I think this improves every episode. It was excellent tonight. Damien lewis is amazing