Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!

[TriceratopsRocks]

Ahoy again mateys! Can you believe we are now aboard thread 4? Stick around for chat about this brilliant show, its cast, its music, fan edits, fan fiction and more than a little obsessing over our fabulous leads - pictures extremely welcome!

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Go watch it (on BBC iPlayer), then come back and join us 😀

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think it's not for you. But it’s actually a show about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, three full threads and many re-watches later.

If you think this might appeal, do watch it and come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But be aware that it's a show that needs time. It’s structured like a theatre production, with a prologue and 3 acts. The 2nd lead arrives (briefly) in episode 3. Episode 4 is the start of Act 1, where the tone changes and the main story begins. You need to give it at least 4 episodes, and from there it just gets better and better. It still took me several more episodes to fully appreciate what I was watching, but by then I was hooked and had to immediately watch it all over again. And again. And again! If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might well be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204
Thread 2 : https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5076581-our-flag-means-death-thread-2-still-utterly-brilliant-and-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=136060611
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5101662-our-flag-means-death-thread-3-its-still-utterly-brilliant-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=137315706

It was a great holiday thanks apart from staying in a tent up a tree, which I feel even pirates might have baulked at.

It was my idea too. My family may eventually forgive me 😂

I’m reading the Chicago one and I’m not sure. This version of Ed is quite cruel. I mean I know he has that capacity but I’m not sure I like lots of that side of him.

@BillStickersIsInnocent <———— This is a good friend 😃

DH just clicked purchase for me, muttering something about Rhys Darby 🤣

Look at him…

Those text messages… the time-stamps were really something too with the delayed replies. Yeah. I get Ed’s hurt, but… today’s ending felt somewhat degrading.

But did you go up a princess and come down a queen like QE2? If so, it was worth it. (Blimey, I love the idea of holidaying in a tree. Reminds me of that fire-watch fic).

More Rhys Darby. Because I don’t need a reason. 🙂

I went up a somewhat grumpy middle aged woman and came down very similarly 😂

It was held up by cables and wobbled a bit.

Omg. I have been saving several chapters of it to read. Now feeling mildly anxious.

That is exactly what I would have done.

Please report back on Uproar, @MrsJellybee (retrospective permission granted, although it was always mandatory viewing and I would have reported you to someone if you hadn't)

Oh thank you for the warning about Chicago @BillStickersIsInnocent and @MrsJellybee . I won't even attempt that until it's completed, and possibly not even then. I'm not very good with angst. I've just read one called Fast Car by smallestchurch and it was a bit too much for me. It promised 'balanced' angst and a happy ending, which was delivered, but it took so long to get there I was just feeling miserable! I couldn't stop reading until I'd almost got to the end because I couldn't leave them as they were. And I seem to be an aberation in that I really enjoyed Tree Change. Never even thought about the meta 😂I suppose I've always been a bit that way inclined though.

Thank you for the info about Uproar. That's definitely getting bought soon. And @Phineyj that sounds like an interesting holiday! Well done for being so adventurous 👏. And you have Wilderpeople to watch - I adored that film. I keep trying to persuade DH to watch it with me, but as ever, no joy. He even likes Sam Neill and still says no!

@CarterBeatsTheDevil He’s so Stede-coded in this, it’s gorgeous! I’ll do a proper report back tomorrow… 🥰

@MrsJellybee he really is! What a sweet, optimistic, hopeful chap 😍

@BillStickersIsInnocent this is Shearwater’s Stede. 😍

Where IS Shearwater?

Such sweet dreams of Rhys Darby…🥰

Before I get to Rhys, a quick non-spoilery review.

If you like Wilderpeople and Boy, this is definitely for you. Julian Dennison is outstanding again. What an amazing young man. I didn’t recognise James Rolleston at first. ‘Boy’ is all grown up! They play brothers. It’s definitely Dennison’s film, but Rolleston’s role is beautifully poignant. I wish he’d had a slightly larger role though. Minnie Driver is their mother. Bit meh. Bad hair. I loved Mark Mitchinson as a Hornigold-channelling principal. Great supporting cast of indigenous female actors. The beret-wearing Citizen Smith young woman is particularly strong. The film has a sad subtext without being overbearing, with typically understated comedy.

Right. Rhys. Baby. This isn’t a criticism. But he just cannot play these types of roles anymore. Not because he’s crap at it. He’s too damn good for it. I couldn’t quite work out when this was filmed, but I think immediately prior to season 2. He has very Stede-like hair and a subtle Stede-mode is activated. I know this isn’t simply the way he acts because I have watched him in other things. There is definitely a crossover in characters, but still something else is going on here. His range has widened so much since OFMD, and his confidence grown, these supporting roles simply cannot contain him anymore. He never overplays his hand and allows Dennison centre stage, but you can feel he’s deliberately operating on one cylinder. He’s brilliant. It’s Stede Bonnet meets Dead Poets Society without the mawkishness. I am so in awe of him.

Thank you for that, @MrsJellybee . I'm going to suggest it to DD tonight, but it's a rare mood for her to want to watch something new so I don't know if I'll be able to. And it's just her and me tonight so I'm keeping my fingers crossed 🤞. I really do hope that Rhys is able to pick up more roles where he is able to properly show what he can do, rather than all the voice work and supporting parts he turns up in. He is so brilliant and I love him! DJ and Taika need to work on a new show together that employs lots of the OFMD team 😁

Of course I had to start reading 'Chicago' after that intro...! It's angsty for sure. I will say, however:

1. Stede gets off rather lightly for the family abandonment in the actual show; and
2. We haven't had Ed's POV in 'Chicago' yet. I imagine that may clear a few things up. What does he do for a living? What is the story with the bar?

I did enjoy the Alma POV, especially her observations on body language, and listening through the floorboards.

Spoilers (ish)

@Phineyj Alma’s POV at the end of Summer/ chp 6 was heartbreaking genius. The body language observations… oof. Tbh I’m here for the kids at this point. Their story.

I think Ed just owns a kinky bar. Ed’s POV is that he ‘didn’t know’. And I missed that on first reading. The museum scene made me realise he didn’t ‘know’ So it’s the extent to which we think Stede’s lied by omission and Ed’s anger is justified. Or whether Stede is a man in free-fall needing some understanding.

Either way it hurts. I hurt for them both.

Thank you @Phineyj for the Fuckery of Art recommendation. I enjoyed that, and minimal angst always suits me 😁

I'm not keen on any of the fics that involve him still being married to Mary when he meets Ed. I'm here for love, smut and crew mayhem, in no particular order, so Chicago is slightly too dark for me. I'll read it anyway though so that I can be involved in all discussions of it. Is it just me or are we a sort of OFMD book club?

I'm definitely waiting till Chicago is finished before trying that one 😁And will probably wait for confirmation of a genuinely happy ending!!

It's one of my favourites. The Kiwi Kincaid 🤣. I have a friend who hates Thomas Kincaid beyond all reason and that somehow really added to my enjoyment of that fic.

We are totally an OFMD book club.

😂

I want Ed is sackcloth and ashes after this performance. And I promise there is no kink involved there. At all. 😉

We're a sort of half book club, I think. A club that's an offshoot of TV show club 😁 But for books we're probably only doing Shearwater even close to properly, because for everything else noone wants to be too spoilerish for fics others might not have read yet. But I think we are doing OFMD club just fine! I've decided I will also read Chicago - I'm just not sure when. I originally thought that waiting for it to be finished with a presumably happy ending would be best, but now I'm wondering whether reading it in bits will detach me enough that I won't find it as difficult or upsetting a read. I have no idea!

If anyone reads Fast Car, I'd be interested to know what you think. For me, that story was just sad. Bleak, perhaps, despite having the ending we expect. But I do have a very low angst threshold so you guys might feel differently.