Our Flag Means Death: Thread 2. Still utterly brilliant and we are still obsessed!

[TriceratopsRocks]

Ahoy there mateys! Hop aboard our ‘safe space ship’ thread 2, where we can continue to wax lyrical about our favourite show.

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Do go watch it (on BBC iPlayer) and then come back here and join us.

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think that's not for you. But it’s actually about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. It does begin as a sort of pirate workplace comedy, but in episode 4 the tone changes and that’s where the main story really starts. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and think they want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, a full thread and many re-watches later. Can you tell how much I love it?

If you think this might appeal, do watch it, then come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But be aware it's a show that needs time. The 2nd lead doesn’t arrive until the end of episode 3 and that’s when the main story starts. You need to give it at least 4 episodes. It then took me several more to fully appreciate what I was watching but then I was hooked - and had to immediately watch it all over again. If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204

I noticed another little parallel yesterday. When Geraldo tells Stede in 1.3 he has ‘Balls for days’, Stede repeats the phrase with pride before saying ‘Maybe I do’.

In 1.4, Stede asks Ed if he ‘Fanc[ies] a fine fabric’. Ed replies ‘I think maybe I do.’

Stede so wants to be thought of as tough whilst Ed so wants softer things. The writing is so subtle, but deliberate. Simple sentences conveying whole personal hinterlands.

Maybe I do

Maybe I do

@TriceratopsRocks

Best I could do 🤭😉

😁 I thank you most kindly.

Blimey the show - it feels ages since we've talked about that, rather than fanfic or the hotness of the leads. I still haven't been able to get to 1.8 on my rewatch. Tonight. I will try tonight.

That parallel is a really good spot. There's another little thing Iike in 1.3. When the arrive on the republic of pirates and Lucius' white outfit is ruined by some blood covered pirate, he shouts "(No no no) Oh God, this isn't happening!". Which always reminds me of his 1.7 comment around the cooking fire of "Oh my God, this is happening". I'm pretty sure it's just writers using the way Lucius speaks, but with so much careful phrasing elsewhere, I'm never sure cooincidence is really a thing. I like the use of (almost) the same line though. I also love in 1.3 the way Stede speaks to 'Iggy' at Jackie'z and the totally disdainful "Whatever!" comment. Bitchy Stede strikes again!

On another note, I spotted the full version of that image of Rhys you found me. Did you see that the full image is on a webpage devoted to pictures of Rhys' feet??? I mean. the main website has loads of celebrities, but Rhys has a page and it's all pictures where you can see his feet. Taika has a page too. I attach an example for your perusal. And the full image of young Rhys, which I find hilarious😂. (I have to say, the Rhys' ones are mainly funny, whereas Taika definitely has some sexy poses. I just continue to be amazed at stuff that exists on the internet.

@TriceratopsRocks I presume now that everything in the show is deliberate and crafted with precision. I also assume now that if I don’t understand something, the fault is mine and it will make sense eventually. It’s like a magic-eye picture, the detail and the depth just keep revealing themselves.

There is nothing on the internet that surprises me. You are right, Stede’s pics are humorous whilst Taika looks like a catalogue model. They are mostly barefoot, but I can’t see why the pics are specifically about their feet.

I love the artwork on Tumblr. I screenshot loads of it. This one is by clairegregoryau. It’s inspired by the photo-shoot chapter in Constellationism where Ed becomes his art. I think it’s glorious.

Oh I agree. The reason I have tried to work out a link is because there always seems to be! But in one scene, Lucius is panicking (verging on traumatised) as he is covered in blood(?) right before he has to accompany Stede into the scary looking bar to announce the gentleman pirate. In the other, he's having his moment of realisation about Stede and Ed. Try as I might I can't see a link. Yet 😁

Re the feet, me neither really. It's a little odd!

And the art - yes, some of it wonderful. Clare Gregory is a name I know. She's beta'd some of the fics I've been reading recently. So possibly Nomadlands? I like this artist's style, especially his mermaid pics. I think this one of Ed tied to the rock with Merstede holding him from below is truly awesome. I haven't really been on Tumblr much this last week or two. Too busy reading fanfic.

www.tumblr.com/googoogojob/750778785820016640?source=share

https://www.tumblr.com/clairegregoryau/752498669121601536/constellationism-xxxiii-a-nest-of-silk-scraps-and?source=share I should link to Claire’s actually

Googoogojob is my favourite! Your link, Blind Man’s Cove, is amazing. It’s my second favourite so far. Edited to add: It really subverts the Andromeda / Kraken myth in a positive way. Plus it’s hot!

This is my favourite. Anything that presents Stede as hope and light (and a lot more besides)…

https://www.tumblr.com/googoogojob/750503736025251840/secretly-watching-a-cute-neighbor-across?source=share

@MrsJellybee There is nothing on the internet that surprises me.

My surprise was at 2am the other night after looking up the Blackbeard costume when I found myself googling Taika’s arms (I don’t even recognise myself any more). There's an entire (but disappointingly short) reddit thread devoted to them. I particularly like the person who was asexual all their adult life... until now. Apparently he did lots of right arm bicep curls in breaks BTS. I think we can all agree it was worth it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OurFlagMeansDeath/comments/194j9dx/taika_waititis_arms_need_their_own_subreddit/?rdt=40680

@TriceratopsRocks It seems there's a rhysdarbyslegs subreddit (link in that thread) - too much?

My older son is coming back from uni in a couple of weeks and and I'm so keen to introduce him to it, hoping he might get hooked and then I'll have someone to talk to about it. Unfortunately I don't think it's his kind of thing - too silly and too romantic.

@TriceratopsRocks I have read that Taika-arm subreddit before 👀… although I seem to have missed the Rhys-leg thread! Those calves 🦵… I shall be back to look at that later…

That pic of Ed/Taika is in my top three. But I also don’t like it because I hate that he is chained in the sun after everything! Who did that? He can’t even hold his head up.

Strangely, I just read this short narrative-gap fanfic which deals with what’s missing in 2.4 https://archiveofourown.org/works/55179724 and I am starting to heal. (😭)

Re: Lucius. I can’t find the link between those ‘happening’ lines either. All I can think is that he is an Everyman character, amongst other things. He is ‘us’. He reacts as we would when covered in blood and grime. ‘This isn’t happening’ -we trust his viewpoint. He then offers us exposition ‘This is happening’ in case we’re too thick to ‘get it’(I was too thick to get it, and still didn’t get it). We trust his judgement again because we agreed with him the first time. I love the stress on happening rather than is as it’s happening ‘now’, in front of him. He offers disgruntled audience perspectives too - ‘The bar is on the floor’. He is often breaking the fourth wall indirectly, offering meta comments about the plot.

That’s all I have. 🤣

Has anyone got any good recs for fanfic NOT about our two leads? I do love them but I need a rest 😉

I fear @TriceratopsRocks may hyperventilate at that thread - there are a couple of splendid pictures and I definitely have a new appreciation of his legs.

Ed looks amazing in that chained up photo but it's too sad - he can't even think straight at that point and needs tlc (while recognising the crew's fear and keeping them safe). I prefer the arm photos from 2.3. Thank you for the story that fills the gap - will look forward to that as it's an unsatisfying gap - but then without the gap we wouldn't get all the eye rolling in 2.4, so...

Lucius - I think one of his most valuable Everyman/us roles is his reaction to Ed's apology and the way Stede in particular seems to gloss over his abusive behaviour and focus on Ed's recovery, rather than focusing on how those he hurt feel. Lucius is the one that keeps reminding us of the pain he caused and how it will take more than a cat bell and rice bag onesie for some of the crew to move on. But then I think S2 has some gaps in the way it deals with Ed's recovery/steps towards rehabilitation in general - partly perhaps due to how much has to be squashed into 2.5-2.8. I like to think that S3 would have examined issues of rehabilitation and reparations in greater detail - both for the crew and for Ed himself. It's one of the areas where being nominally a comedy but dealing with violence makes things complicated. Sorry - that was a bit of a diversion from Lucius!

@BillStickersIsInnocent sorry, this does not compute 🤣 (I don’t know of any. I’m struggling to keep up with the S+E ones).

@lizziesaurusx yeah, @TriceratopsRocks hyperventilating at Rhys’ legs… lame… 👀 (😮‍💨)

It’s the water droplets on Ed’s bicep which just pushes it over the edge for me. I kind of lose my peripheral vision…

Lucius’ ‘the bar is on the floor’ comment is definitely meant as an audience/ Everyman perspective re: the rushed rehabilitation and forgiveness of Ed. The producers knew it was an issue. I just read again that in total, we lost 80 minutes from season 2 that we got in season 1. Jenkins’ cut for episode ten was 40 minutes (season 1 finale was about 37). It was cut to 28. We lost 12 minutes in S2.8 alone. I’m sad and bitter in that order.

@MrsJellybee fair enough 😂

*Jenkins’ cut for episode 8, that should say (we never got a 9 or 10 😭)

@MrsJellybee I just read again that in total, we lost 80 minutes from season 2 that we got in season 1. Jenkins’ cut for episode ten was 40 minutes (season 1 finale was about 37). It was cut to 28. We lost 12 minutes in S2.8 alone. I’m sad and bitter in that order.

40 minutes! That would have gone some way to compensating for the rushedness of the plotting in that episode. It's such a shame -you'd think that the finale at least would've been given the space it needed to breathe. I wonder whether we'll ever get a Jenkins cut in due course? Also whereabouts did you read that?

I haven't read any of them (very much still stuck on our beloved leads - sorry) but if you're an Izzy fan there seem to be a lot of Izzy fics out there - including some seriously dark ones.

@lizziesaurusx thanks but I don’t think I want to go there. I was thinking more of Anne and Mary, or maybe Lucius and Pete, or Spanish Jackie and her 20 husbands. I may have a search but there are 20k ofmd fics!!

Also whereabouts did you read that? It’s mentioned often on Tumblr. I’ve never found the original source, but seeing that 1.10 was apparently 37 minutes (iplayer says 35), it stands to reason Jenkins would give at least that to 2.8. 28 minutes is an insult. I will try to find a valid source. And 2.7 isn’t even 24 minutes. No wonder it’s a mess.

Does anyone have any funny Blackbonnet fanfic recommendations? I really enjoyed ‘Work Experience’. Whilst I love tearing my heart out every day, I do need a bit of a break from the angst. I totally get @BillStickersIsInnocent request. I will look over the recommendations posted earlier too.

@BillStickersIsInnocent I would definitely stay away from all things Izzy. The filters are quite good on AO3 to narrow down character options.

@MrsJellybee And 2.7 isn’t even 24 minutes. No wonder it’s a mess.

I hadn't spotted the lengths of any of them but that's just ridiculous! It's baffling - if scenes had already been filmed (eg that extended one of the final battle preparations), why would the running time be cut so much? (I don't know anything about how tv production works)

@BillStickersIsInnocent The first two fics that come up when you tag Lucius are Lucius/Izzy relationship ones which I really don't get, but he seems to be tagged in over 7,000 so hopefully there are some lovely Lucius/Pete ones in there too. I do love Lucius - my favourite Stede/Ed fics all have a hefty role for him.

@lizziesaurusx I think this is how the rumour started. It’s not clear whether Jenkins means episode 8 was originally forty minutes or there is 40 minutes worth of cut material across the season OR (jokingly) forty minutes of Pop-pop. 🙈