Our Flag Means Death: Thread 2. Still utterly brilliant and we are still obsessed!

[TriceratopsRocks]

Ahoy there mateys! Hop aboard our ‘safe space ship’ thread 2, where we can continue to wax lyrical about our favourite show.

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Do go watch it (on BBC iPlayer) and then come back here and join us.

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think that's not for you. But it’s actually about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. It does begin as a sort of pirate workplace comedy, but in episode 4 the tone changes and that’s where the main story really starts. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and think they want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, a full thread and many re-watches later. Can you tell how much I love it?

If you think this might appeal, do watch it, then come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But be aware it's a show that needs time. The 2nd lead doesn’t arrive until the end of episode 3 and that’s when the main story starts. You need to give it at least 4 episodes. It then took me several more to fully appreciate what I was watching but then I was hooked - and had to immediately watch it all over again. If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204

Latest BTS Calypso’s Birthday.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C7kBuEmPHXn/?igsh=MXU0dTdlanJmaDVnMA%3D%3D&img_index=1

Lovely! I wonder whether there is BTS anywhere of Ed and Stede dancing? I would've loved to see that.

Ooh I second that lizziesaurusx - you can see the way that Stede says “come on” and they walk away from the railing that’s when it happens

I might be wrong, but I seem to remember it was originally planned but when the plot of that episode changed they didn't film it 😥

Exactly - he does and it feels like it was just about to happen! So I wondered whether it had been filmed but just not made the final edit, but...

@TriceratopsRocks when the plot of that episode changed they didn't film it 😥

...it sounds like not - so disappointing! We needed a bit of dancing, in public, or at least a handhold - it's not much to ask

I know. It would have been wonderful to have. It's an issue I have with S2. I wanted some casual displays of affection in 'public'; in front of the crew. A slow dance would have been perfect. I think the only time we actually got it was the elbow stroking after the funeral. We did get affectionate glances but most of the time they were positioned too far apart. I wanted more cuddles and hugs. I think we would have got it in S3. Curse you, David Zaslav!

I love Stede commenting that he can hear violin music playing, and how beautiful it is. Like he thinks it’s in his brain or something and is a manifestation of his love for Ed. 🤣

That's the bit that really jumped out at me - hearing his voice like that. Curse Ned Low. We needed that dance!

I don’t need a reason…

Just ordered this. Subtle but may flush out fellow shipmates.

www.redbubble.com/i/tote-bag/We-Need-to-be-a-Lighthouse-by-nicwhitty/153331409.A9G4R

That's a lovely bag anyway!

This must be what Freemasonry is like 🤣

Oh that's beautiful 😍 I want one too!

Me too - it's obvious from 2.5 onwards that they've decided to be properly together, and the crew have known for ages before that anyway. At the party they're kind of standing separately from the group and a handhold or hug would've been so natural, and everyone else was dancing so why not them too? A handhold at Lucius and Pete's wedding would've been lovely too, rather than a glance from one but not the other.

That's lovely, @MrsBruin and I hope it brings you many fellow shipmates!

It's my birthday soon and I'm trying to narrow down some things to suggest but there's just so much choice - tote bag, t shirt, keyring, or I'd quite like a BB bar and grill apron... though what I want most, of course, is a breakup robe to flounce around in (and I'm still hankering after a life sized Ed S2 cut out figure).

I think part of the show’s addiction is the breadcrumbing. They give us just enough to make us ache, but not quite enough for us to get comfortable or familiar with their intimacy.

Exactly this, @MrsJellybee Their emotional closeness and coupleness is established, but we never see the comfortable physical but non-sexual closeness, and the crew don't either. It's a shame, and I wonder whether the decision about whether to show some of those moments would've been different if they knew there would be no S3. Even in the morning after scene, there's a distance.

@lizziesaurusx they give us that intimacy in Lucius and Pete. It reminds me of a Shakespeare comedy where the ‘low’ comedy characters get to convey ideas and themes in an obvious way we’re then meant to presume carry over into the ‘high’ comedy characters in a more subtle form.

But as much as I love Shakespeare, I say no to this here! (and why I’m neck deep in fanfic).

@MrsJellybee That's such a good point. Maybe it's partly because Lucius and Pete's relationship predates the series, so is more established/mature, and mostly past the angsty stage. The crew don't just know they're together in the way they do for Ed and Stede, it's also clear in the way they inhabit each other's space and they're affectionate to each other in public, plus the endearments they use for each other.

I guess if it's good enough for Shakespeare... But to me it's a real shortcoming in showing Ed and Stede's relationship as fully mature (I guess because it isn't really, yet). So yes, thank goodness for fan fiction to fill those massive gaps that leave us pining.

Totally. I don't understand why it didn't happen. I suppose it could have been part of Ed's taking it slow? And it just contrasts so much with all of Lucius and Pete's PDAs. Yes they are further ahead in their relationship than Ed and Stede, but we certainly weren't short of the PDAs with those two!

There are loads of products on their website with that design. What they are missing is a big print. I'm looking for something for my kitchen wall, and it would be perfect.

Oh! I swear I refreshed the thread earlier, but I seem to have missed a load of posts.

we never see the comfortable physical but non-sexual closeness, and the crew don't either. It's a shame, and I wonder whether the decision about whether to show some of those moments would've been different if they knew there would be no S3.
Totally, @lizziesaurusx . Having got over the timing/rushed-ness of the last episodes, this is my main issue with S2.

I think part of the show’s addiction is the breadcrumbing.
I hasn't thought of this, @MrsJellybee but it's a very good point. And yes we do get that in the fanfic, and it's one reason I'm also knee-deep in it (and again my current re-watch is suffering for it!). There just aren't enough hours in the day.

Maybe it's partly because Lucius and Pete's relationship predates the series
Does it? I hadn't got that impression. I just assumed they met on the ship, started enjoying 'hookups' as we witnessed (well, sort of witnessed) but then fell in love. I could well be wrong!

So. My latest rewatch. I have to keep posting about it or it's going to get totally derailed again and I desperately need to get back to S2.

Art of Fuckery: I watched this three times because I love it :) It's one reason my rewatches take ages! We've talked about this one before so my memorable moments this watch were:

• Stede flashing a bit of leg as he gets out of bed (there's something witchy afoot). Yes, yes, I know!😁
• Izzy hanging around furtively all over the place. I suppose he doesn't have friends on board to spend time with but he's forever just appearing. Behind the mast when Ed is teaching Stede to fight. Behind the library curtain in Stede's cabin. Give people a bit of privacy, please (yes, it's a recurring theme)!
• The bathtub scene. I know we've talked about it before, but the lighting and mirror work is phenomenal. And how long did it take from the end of the fuckery to Ed and Stede emerging onto the deck? The scene we saw, plus however long it took Stede to help Ed compose himself till he was ready to face the crew. It must have been a while. I wonder what the crew were thinking? And then Ed had to watch Izzy duel the man he loves, only half the time he's too scared to look.
• The duel. Izzy was so cocky and over-confident Stede actually had openings to stab Izzy, had he wanted. For a supposedly excellent swordsman it was a pretty poor show.
• The crew in the duel. This is great. I just adored their encouraging comments to Stede all the way through, particularly Frenchie continuing to show his supportive side - he can be heard for most of the fight.

Images are all of Ed's tummy, because why not. Didn't know which one to pick so you've got all of them 🗡🗡🗡

@TriceratopsRocks great observations. Just to pick up on Izzy, he is so creepy in this episode. Skulking in Stede's cabin. When Stede moves into the library nook and closes the curtain, Izzy's shadowy silhouette and 'plumb the depths' gives Stede the idea for the Kraken. I don't believe Izzy knows the psychology behind the Kraken for Ed, and he's not even trying to encourage it as part of the Fuckery. It's inadvertent. But it says something about Izzy. He brings out the Kraken idea in Stede as a foreshadowing of bringing it out in Ed in 1.10. 'I fed your darkness' (2.8).

You're getting more meta!

The duel is a psychological replay of the dynamic between Ed's father and mother. Izzy, the father. Stede, the mother. As a child, Ed watched on helpless time and again before finally killing his father. In the replay, Ed is again rendered helpless. He can't watch. He grabs against the rigging and stims from side-to-side in torment. But this time he has equipped the person he loves with the means to defend themselves. And they do. Ed doesn't have to intervene.

Izzy's banishment is a metaphorical death. Unfortunately he comes back to haunt them again. For Ed, this fight replay is a small step towards healing his trauma which Izzy unfortunately undoes at the end of the series.