Page 5 | Doctor Who

Deborah54 · 2024-05-11T07:54:51+00:00

This will be my 12th Doctor. I’m a big Doctor Who fan. Happy memories of Sat with my dad watching cyber men and darleks. But what the hell has happened? I’ve just finished, well I managed 25 mins, before I couldn’t take it anymore the 1st episode with the new Doctor and sidekick. Awful acting with a ludicrous plot (yes I know it’s fantasy) but it’s never been this stupid. Can’t help but think the BBC aren’t bothered and think they can put out anything and we’ll watch. Russell T Davies should have his pens taken off him and spare us anymore pain. I can’t be the only Doctor Who fan who thinks like this. Absolutely Gutted 😞

CountFucula · 13/05/2024 05:29

I think Ruby is a space baby.

Pixiesgirl · 13/05/2024 05:49

TempestTost · 13/05/2024 05:17

It seems like instead of RTD's return creating a return to something really improved, it's doubled down on all the things I've found I really disliked about the show in the last few years. The list being:

I've never liked the addition of the doctor having human like sexual relationships as part of the plot. This has been a feature I guess of all NuWho, but I always felt a mistake. Though at least with Rose, I felt it could be ready by the viewer as a very deep and intense platonic relationship, and frankly I thought that reading made for a much stronger story. The River song relationship imo was always completely unbelievable and cringe. I think that it's mainly that it humanizes him too much - it really cuts into the sense of him as being deeply alien. Now, the sense that he's a gay man of the type that is a thing here among humans adds to that sense for me - why would we think Time Lords had the same types of sexual tropes?
Relatedly, I am a little surprised that RTD is pushing the LGTBQ+ ="flamboyant thing so hard. It's like we're going backwards. Maybe among the TimeLord LGBTQ+ community, members are known for boring wardrobe choices and an aversion to musical numbers? (And if we wanted to get thoughtful about it, if we were going to imagine that sexuality among Time Lords was so very fluid, I would suspect that a general effect of it might be that there would be no such thing as "gay culture" at all in their society, and we wouldn't see any kind of noticeable cultural/social markers associated with Time Lord sexuality like we do with humans.)
This thing you note with the outsized amount of attention to making obscure puzzles for the viewer to solve, spotting Easter eggs, etc. Is this really what good writing has come to? Or what passes for clever and intelligent writing? I really wonder if the amount of time spent on this shit, and what's required to shoehorn it all in, isn't a significant reason for the shit plots.
What the fuck is this obsession that now exists with reconning the shit out of established stories and deliberately removing or undermining many basic elements of the story? As if the viewers weren't watching because, actually, they like the story and story elements.

(This is not at all the same thing as creating new narrative and lore in a natural way as the story continues to develop - although in my experience super-fans will disingenuously claim it is.) I don't think this is confined to Dr Who, btw - it seems to be a major trend in television and film now, and Disney is one of the worst offenders.

They don't seem to have dialed back the "wokeness" element that many viewer have complained about. Which is again, I think, a failure of good writing - people feel that the show is taking a morally superior tone and imagining that it will "educate" them on various topics, or that perhaps it's some sort of virtue signalling exercise. Again - it's just bad writing. Good writing can and often will include some kinds of social commentary, but it has to feel organic, like it respects the viewer, and the viewer shouldn't feel like they are seeing the mechanics of writing underlying the story - they should just get caught up in the story. It's like the worst kind of preachy Victorian morality story. It's like when you see actors working at acting. Bad bad bad.

What I find very odd about it all is that I think that at one time, RTD was a good solid writer. I don't really think it's just him, it's like a huge number of people in the creative sector have lost the ability to produce any good content over the past 10 years. What the hell happened?

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Nail on head. Agree with everything you said.

It's just bizarre to me RTD has written good stuff (usually contains some elements of naffness). It's like he has lost his mind, interested to see what the Moffat episode is like next week.

TempestTost · 13/05/2024 06:15

I forgot to add - I also hate this thing where every companion seems to need to have some special background, and it seems to be going that way yet again. It just begins to feel old and rehashed.

BritishBeatleMania · 13/05/2024 06:50

I’m enjoying it. Ncuti is brilliant, it still looks great. Space Babies wasn’t a great episode sure, but I loved the concept of episode 2, and bar the strange ending I enjoyed the episode.

things change, and Dr Who has changed. But we’re two episodes into a new doctor and it takes time to bed in.

I didn’t like Matt Smith at first, one of my favourites now. The dinosaur on London episode left me cold, still watched all of Capaldi and thought it was great.

So what there have been a couple of mis steps. I want to see what happens. And I want to see more Dr Who!

TripleDaisySummer · 13/05/2024 10:05

Though at least with Rose, I felt it could be ready by the viewer as a very deep and intense platonic relationship, and frankly I thought that reading made for a much stronger story.

I think there's something wider and weirder going on in dramas/books/films especially in YA area with friendship - it's like no-one can be friends al Harry Met Sally but with same sex now as well everyone wants sex with everyone else so friendship with no underlying lust is dying as a concept. I don't know if it's related to decrease in number of friends and more social isolation in USA amongst younger cohorts or it's just bad writing and fan fic and social media pressure.

The doctor being an alien and with a huge age gap with companions isn't enough to ward of romance complications and demands - especially as previous writing went this way- him being gay with a female companion is and it's on message and inclusive.

TempestTost · 13/05/2024 10:42

TripleDaisySummer · 13/05/2024 10:05

Though at least with Rose, I felt it could be ready by the viewer as a very deep and intense platonic relationship, and frankly I thought that reading made for a much stronger story.

I think there's something wider and weirder going on in dramas/books/films especially in YA area with friendship - it's like no-one can be friends al Harry Met Sally but with same sex now as well everyone wants sex with everyone else so friendship with no underlying lust is dying as a concept. I don't know if it's related to decrease in number of friends and more social isolation in USA amongst younger cohorts or it's just bad writing and fan fic and social media pressure.

The doctor being an alien and with a huge age gap with companions isn't enough to ward of romance complications and demands - especially as previous writing went this way- him being gay with a female companion is and it's on message and inclusive.

I think you may be correct about that. I've felt for a long time that there is a real lack of understanding of or respect for friendship in storytelling, which is part of the reason older books with friendships are consistently reinterpreted as sexual. But your point about lack of friendships among young people is an interesting one too.

Having the Dr be gay does seem like a way the writers could avoid a romance between him and the young female companion - so long of course as she keeps wearing all the girly clothes. Presumably if she shaves her head and takes to jeans and boots he might be interested, given that we know RTD is all about gender, not male or female as such.

Pixiesgirl · 13/05/2024 10:47

Maybe it's related to the whole "shipping" thing online and the rise of fan fiction becoming popular?

HappiestSleeping · 13/05/2024 10:48

Deborah54 · 12/05/2024 10:16

Don’t do it HaroldMeaker it’ll destroy any happy memories you have.

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Of the new ones, I though Christopher Ecclestone was the best. David Tennant also reasonable. I got used to Matt Smith, struggled throu Peter Capaldi and stopped after that.

Some very fine actors, but just didn't work for me unfortunately. Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker were The Doctor for me really, but also, I'm not 7 years old anymore.

Pixiesgirl · 13/05/2024 10:51

Am I the only one who doesn't think Ncuti is great? I have seen precisely zero criticism of his portrayal despite fans screaming about bigots hating him (I don't frequent anywhere racists or homophobes would gather tbf).

TripleDaisySummer · 13/05/2024 11:03

Am I the only one who doesn't think Ncuti is great?

I thought he was better in the special - another poster suggested it was finding his feet - maybe that's it.

He had moments that were good and does sometime convey the energy of the doctor - but felt both he and Ruby actress were 'off' in second episode - lots of saying not showing in the script which wasn't helping but overall effect was they came across as stilted in their acting overall - could be a director/timing/ experience issue.

nocoolnamesleft · 13/05/2024 11:09

Ncuti does seem to have the energy of the doctor right. But the first episode was a mix of 3 yr old farts and bogeys and adult abortion rights and refugee rights, doing both clumsily. And the second one was going rather better, clever idea, then just shoehorned in a totally unnecessary song and dance number. Musical numbers can work in non musical shows, just look at Buffy's Once More With Feeling, but they have to advance the plot, not just be an awkward add on.

TripleDaisySummer · 13/05/2024 11:23

Musical numbers can work in non musical shows, just look at Buffy's Once More With Feeling, but they have to advance the plot, not just be an awkward add on.

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds musical number does that - advances long term plots keeps characterisation - internal to that show -consistent and it hits fun and poignant at same time. They manage same with cartoon crossover as well - just perfect.

DH keeps reading hype about Dr Who doing a homage to Buffy episode - he insisted press was wrong and it wasn't the goblin episode but this with musical villain would be it - they clearly don't have that level of talent and think shoe horning in musical numbers at end is the same.

My teens grew up with classic Horrible History songs - witty educational and background noise to their childhoods this is so poor in comparison - it just adds to impression of dumping down for USA audience.

PuttingDownRoots · 13/05/2024 11:30

The scene where Ruby played the piano on the roof was lovely in comparison.

I would love to know if that was composed especially for the scene or if it was an existing piece of music.

Treaclewell · 13/05/2024 11:54

I may be very naive on this, but weren't some of the dancers doing something that resembled the Twist? Not needing to be looked for crypticism.
But I have also missed the references to Miss Flood. Feeling FOMO here.

NormalAuntFanny · 13/05/2024 12:30

The problem with Dr who is that it had got so very bad and very self important that it really needed to be taken outside, shot, and buried in a forest for a decade or more.

Instead we get this stupid American reboot.

OneFrenchEgg · 13/05/2024 12:48

Treaclewell · 13/05/2024 11:54

I may be very naive on this, but weren't some of the dancers doing something that resembled the Twist? Not needing to be looked for crypticism.
But I have also missed the references to Miss Flood. Feeling FOMO here.

Yes they were doing the twist. I don't think Dr Who is allowed to be that simple anymore 😂

jay55 · 13/05/2024 13:36

The baby episode was just weird.
And while I appreciate the need for the doctor to give a potted backstory of himself at the start of a new series, with a new doctor for new viewers, I really needed a bit of a recap on the assistant as I had zero memory of her.

I liked the second episode a lot more but it didn't totally hold my attention.

I don't think 7 year old me would have stuck around for 40 years if this was my introduction to the show.

Macbeff · 13/05/2024 13:49

I’m a very long-standing fan and for me the the jury is still out. Pretty much loved everything from 1963 to Capaldi, and there were one or two moments from Jodie Whitaker that I liked (although didn’t like the portrayal generally).

The positives are Ncuti is good so far (although hasn’t utterly blown my socks off), the chemistry with Millie is good, and I liked Maestro as a villain (even with the scenery chewing).

On the down side, Space Babies was awful, truly laughable. I can’t believe they chose it as season opener. The effects are dodgy at times, which is surprising. However, the biggest issue for me is a general feeling that it’s not being taken seriously as a drama any longer, it’s just a daft, juvenile romp.

Anyway, I’ll reappraise next week!

TempestTost · 13/05/2024 16:38

Pixiesgirl · 13/05/2024 10:51

Am I the only one who doesn't think Ncuti is great? I have seen precisely zero criticism of his portrayal despite fans screaming about bigots hating him (I don't frequent anywhere racists or homophobes would gather tbf).

I have heard a few people who were meh about him. Sometimes though it can be so hard to tell what is down to bad acting, vs bad writing, vs bad direction.

I also wonder if people don't want to criticize for fear of being called a bigot. I saw a whole thread where anyone who was even mildly critical was savaged for not accepting that some people are black and/or "flamboyant" which seems to be the new word for gay.

ElleLeopine · 13/05/2024 19:02

I think that Ncuti really has the potential of being an awesome Doctor, as long as the scripts don't let him down.
It always takes a while for me to warm to a new Doctor, but so far he is ahead of the curve.
I was very disappointed with Jodie, I so wanted her to be better as the first female Doctor, but she never clicked with me.

AnImaginaryCat · 13/05/2024 19:26

Pixiesgirl · 13/05/2024 10:51

Am I the only one who doesn't think Ncuti is great? I have seen precisely zero criticism of his portrayal despite fans screaming about bigots hating him (I don't frequent anywhere racists or homophobes would gather tbf).

Have to say I'm not swooning over his performance. I'm not convinced Ncuti has got much range, he's just portraying the Doctor with too similar characteristics as he did Eric in Sex Education.

8misskitty8 · 13/05/2024 19:53

The 4 characters Susan twist has played so far. Will be looking for her next episode.
Its a bit like the bald watcher in each episode of ‘fringe’ or the pineapple in every episode of ‘psych’

InMySpareTime · 13/05/2024 20:10

@8misskitty8 there's a Radio Times article about it, she's listed as "ambulance" in next week's episode too.

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-susan-twist-theories/

Rummikub · 13/05/2024 20:36

Oh isn’t the third one pic from space babies?

Binglebong · 13/05/2024 21:12

The Twist thing sounds worrying like Clara.