Doctor Who

[Deborah54]

This will be my 12th Doctor. I’m a big Doctor Who fan. Happy memories of Sat with my dad watching cyber men and darleks.
But what the hell has happened? I’ve just finished, well I managed 25 mins, before I couldn’t take it anymore the 1st episode with the new Doctor and sidekick. Awful acting with a ludicrous plot (yes I know it’s fantasy) but it’s never been this stupid. Can’t help but think the BBC aren’t bothered and think they can put out anything and we’ll watch. Russell T Davies should have his pens taken off him and spare us anymore pain.

I can’t be the only Doctor Who fan who thinks like this. Absolutely Gutted 😞

I liked Miracle Day as a stand alone,non dr who/torchwood series.

I did think they were setting up for there to be a US based part of the franchise.

Heaven Sent was an absolute masterpiece, but it was lateish in Capaldi’s run. Some of his early work wasn’t great (his first episode, with the dinosaur, for example)

I completely agree that having them so separate hasn’t been good. Traditionally, the companion is the eyes of the audience and the Doctor explains to them (and us) the general cleverness of the plan. But even in Rogue, they were pursuing two different storylines, mostly.

I cant remember miracle day torchwood. But children of Earth will stay with me forever.

Capaldi was phenomenal in that.

Miracle Day was crap no wonder you forgot it lol

Children of Earth on the other hand, absolutely loved it but OMG could never watch it again as it was just too traumatising, too emotionally intense 😥
That grown up man who was a little kid and who had the nervous tic that turned out to be a traumatic throw back to Jack Harkness turning up lives rent free in my head

I loved the episode as a whole, especially the cranking up of tension leading to the big reveal and the ghostly creepiness of the VHS recording…. but I hated the UNIT intro at the start after the TARDIS landed. I just can’t take them seriously as a military organisation.

Reminds me a bit of mid-Pertwee when UNIT stopped being portrayed seriously and was largely played for laughs - three officers and a couple of squaddies to defend the world from every alien in the Universe.

It was so Disney.

Yes I’m the same. I couldn’t go through it again. But I recommend it to anyone who hasn’t seen it.
Remember seeing a couple of the actors at comic con -went with dd. I was excited but it felt like no one knew who they were sadly.

Pearl Mackie should so have got more than one season, IMO. I loved Bill.
Clara outstayed her welcome, for me. Didn't Capaldi persuade her to stay on for an extra year?
This season isn't doing it for me yet. I didn't watch when Mel was a companion so Bonnie Langford is just an irritating ex child star for me and has none of the emotional hit of Sarah Jane's return.

I am a huge Clara fan.

But yes, Jenna changed her mind a couple of times, not sure what prompted it. It’s why Last Christmas (with the dream aliens) was such a mess as it was originally going to be Clara’s goodbye.

However - Face the Raven/Heaven Sent/Hell Bent were an amazing set of episodes.

I liked this most recent episode more than previous ones, I liked the premise/story (albeit I thought the use of anagrams was a bit childish - why would a God-like creature do that?)

I liked that Unit were involved and Kate LS. I was happy to see Mel there. I thought the story kept your attention and I really want to know who Ruby's birth mother is now.

However, I'm not totally sold on this series or the new doctor. He's a good actor and is at his best during the moments of high drama and tension, but the beginning bits seem to coast a bit and it's all a bit 'Hi hun' hug hug hug, until the story gets going. At least he didn't cry this time. It's taking time for me to see him as The Doctor, maybe because he's so young? It took me about 2 series to get used to Matt Smith for the same reason. I'm not getting the mix of gravitas and comedy that previous doctors have had, or the sense that the Doctor is 2000 years old with infinite wisdom. Capaldi had that in bucket loads. Jodie Whittaker didn't have it (or the bad writing didn't allow for it) - and I'm still irritated that, as the first female doctor, they had her making a massive mistake with literally the first thing she touched in the Tardis and falling out of the doors - it felt a bit 'Women. for pity's sake, don't drive'. That's a bit off topic. But I think I just feel a bit flat about the most recent two doctors. I'm hoping they will bring back Sacha Dhawan back as the Master at some point, as he was brilliant - the perfect mix of evil madness. I actually think he would have made a great Doctor too.

He's a good actor and is at his best during the moments of high drama and tension, but the beginning bits seem to coast a bit and it's all a bit 'Hi hun' hug hug hug, until the story gets going. At least he didn't cry this time.

Oh, come on! Ncuti Gatwa doesn’t write the script or direct the scenes. I certainly haven’t loved much of the writing this season - but I don’t honestly see how any of the previous actors could have done more with the same scripts or directing.

And (millionth time of repeating) it is the writers and directors and editors who want to show him crying. Because the tears show up prettily on his face. Not because Ncuti Gatwa is inherently a less capable or worthy human being or Doctor than his predecessors.

but I don’t honestly see how any of the previous actors could have done more with the samescripts or directing.

That used to be said about Whittaker - but then you had Sacha Dhawan and Jo Martin who has same poor scripts same lack luster direction and still put in memorable performances and acted their socks off. Even this episode Jemma Redgrave as Kate Steward was good.

I'm not quite ready to say Ncuti Gatwa is as bad - and not blame the poor writing but he's not managed to convivence me he's the Dr yet - not a problem I had till Whittaker - and not because she was female - had no issue with Missy or Dr Ruth - but because it was played as ditzy little girl - which was part script and direction but also the acting.

I assume the crying is something in the story with all the snow, Mrs flood etc - as would show runner really warp a well loved character behavior just because the actor look pretty crying.

I remember Miracle Day - clearly meant to be a US launch show - had Mekhi Phifer who I loved in ER - interesting premise and yet somehow just didn't work.

Children of Earth was compelling and brilliant but it's DVD sales at time - then a big thing - didn't do well and I could see why - never wanted to rewatch it.

Why is the crying warping the Doctor’s character more than Ten projecting himself to Rose in Bad Wolf Bay or Eleven’s last words to HalluciAmy before he regenerated or…

Clara: But I betrayed you!
Twelve: Do you really think I care so little for you that that would make a difference?

Does anyone feel like they missed an episode before this one? The Doctor and Ruby just come running into UNIT looking for answers but I don't remember them coming up with the question.

If you think there haven't been a significant percentage of Doctor Who fans complaining for every single minuscule difference manifested by every single new doctor, you must be very new

I think the question was could UNIT help them find out who Susan is, because she'd been popping up all across time and space.

Yes I know what you mean, he is a bit 'now I'm happy, now I'm sad'. Not a very nuanced performance and not sure whether that's down to him, the writing or a combo of both. e.g Matt Smith's Doctor brought everything IMO, he was funny, seemed alien, troubled, wise, gentle and kind but when he was angry he really blew. Just not on that level! Also i miss the fast-pacedness that Smith and Tennant brought. He's definitely an improvement on JW though.

Given I’m quoting those three examples off the top of my head, not THAT new 😉

Why is the crying warping the Doctor’s character more than Ten projecting himself to Rose in Bad Wolf Bay or Eleven’s last words to HalluciAmy before he regenerated or…

Mainly the actor having convinced me he was the doctor - I'm not a purist can accept many changes to cannon - ( though timeless child arc was annoying ).

Kate Steward barking orders I'd be inclined to follow her lead - the crying Dr not so sure certainly not the inspiring character of yesteryear - the one you'd follow into danger.

I'd just like a good reason for the behavioural change of crying deeper than oh the actor pretty when crying - something that superficial smacks of audience and content contempt to me - yes its just light entertainment TV but if you cant take your own product and audience for it somewhat seriously or have way more fun with it than this - not sure why anyone else should be bothered with it.

Oh, come on! Ncuti Gatwa doesn’t write the script or direct the scenes. I certainly haven’t loved much of the writing this season - but I don’t honestly see how any of the previous actors could have done more withthe samescripts or directing.

And (millionth time of repeating) it is the writers and directors and editors who want to show him crying. Because the tears show up prettily on his face. Not because Ncuti Gatwa is inherently a less capable or worthy human being or Doctor than his predecessors.

Well, yes! I know that! But whether it's the writing/scripts or the acting, both things surely affect the viewers perception of the Doctor? I know he has to cry because it's the script, surely that's obvious??? I didn't say he was a less capable or worthy human being AT ALL. That's not what I meant or what I said 🙄. Don't put words in my mouth please. Rude.

I suppose, to me, the Doctor expressing strong emotion, through words or facial expression or tears, is already established and it isn’t something Ncuti needs to “earn”. YMMV.

I agree that The Timeless Child stuff should have been yeeted into the Flux, though.

@ladyflower23 I get what you mean, but I don't remember when they realized it, apart from in this episode. It was like they'd been talking about it previously.

I suppose, to me, the Doctor expressing strong emotion, through words or facial expression or tears, is already established and it isn’t something Ncuti needs to “earn”. .

I think there are better ways of conveying emotion that constant tears - the look Kate gave the Doctor after she lost a man spoke volumes - so really hoping there is a good reason for it.

Not sure what you mean by "earn" - I'd expect an actor to embody and portray a character that is the job - you do get miscasting like Wolf Hall's Thomas Crowell being Mark Rylance but by end of first episode or most two I believed him in the role because he's that good an actor.

I'm still hoping Ncuti will settle into the role but there's not many episodes left frankly and if he needs more than that not sure I'll be around still watching to see it.

“Earn” was in response to this point from you:

Mainly the actor having convinced me he was the doctor

Expressing* *strong emotion is sufficiently part of NuWho Doctors that no one actor has to convince me of (ie earn) that.

I totally dismissed Matt Smith because of his youth, but he had me completely after about ten minutes. Fish fingers and custard indeed