Doctor Who

[Deborah54]

This will be my 12th Doctor. I’m a big Doctor Who fan. Happy memories of Sat with my dad watching cyber men and darleks.
But what the hell has happened? I’ve just finished, well I managed 25 mins, before I couldn’t take it anymore the 1st episode with the new Doctor and sidekick. Awful acting with a ludicrous plot (yes I know it’s fantasy) but it’s never been this stupid. Can’t help but think the BBC aren’t bothered and think they can put out anything and we’ll watch. Russell T Davies should have his pens taken off him and spare us anymore pain.

I can’t be the only Doctor Who fan who thinks like this. Absolutely Gutted 😞

What I would like clarity (!) on is whether the rescue mission was initiated by the Doctor and Ruby. Did they coax people down to the underground area by telling them they could escape to the outer world - but with the real intention of evacuating them all on the TARDIS?

Or were members of the Finetime society aware of the monster /AI danger and already involved in an escape plan to the outer world that the Doctor and Ruby came upon by chance?

It was confusing because the non-speaking characters at the end were packing stuff and carrying/ wearing blankets but showing no reaction to the Doctor - so it was hard to discern what their plans or expectations were.

ive been pondering this while gardening. In unleashes RTD said something like, if you didn’t see the racism we want you to think “why not”.

Except as a PP said these were aliens with green/blue blood. I’ve been trained over the last 20 years of Doctor Who to accept aliens see things differently. The Daleks, Ood, Slitheen, Jidoon, the Time Lords, all of them, we’ve been shown time and time again that different species view the world through a different lens. These were not human, we were told that early in, so I immediately removed my “human assumptions lens”.

By then making the end of the story about racism based upon the human experience and human world view and understanding, that took me out of it. It didn’t make sense. If these had been humans, albeit futuristic and living in a different galaxy, I’d buy it. But why do very human failings and issues apply to aliens.

I have zero issue with Doctor Who dealing with racism as an issue but for me it didn’t make any sense in the context of this story.

Ah, the blood? Think I assumed they’d been biologically altered to survive on the Finetime planet. I mean various drugs we take, maybe intravenously, can alter the appearance of parts of our bodies. Doesn’t seem unreasonable that humans living on another planet might need wholesale reworking to withstand a new environment.

But I realise that might not be what RTD intended to convey.

What was the Barbican exhibition?

I also thought Lindy responded to Ruby as she was young and started off speaking like an IT help desk. Whereas the doctor wasn’t calm.

It was this, @Rummikub:

https://www.barbican.org.uk/whats-on/2019/event/ai-more-than-human

in 2019. Part of it showed some research where AI tools used by, for example, the police, border security, personal devices misinterpreted black faces - with all sorts of awful consequences. IIRC one could put oneself in the picture, so to speak, and see how the AI reacted to you. It was not - comforting.

@KomproMatilda wow that does sound uncomfortable.

I have read a few articles on how AI can’t handle black and brown faces. Self driving cars done recognise us as human!

I know it’s down to the coding but it’s surely not difficult to accept that white male is not the default.

Even health tech (I know it’s not AI but I want to spread the word).. Oxygen saturation readings are inaccurate on black/ brown skin

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58032842

I've watched the episode twice now and completely missed the bit where their blood was shown. Please can someone tell me when this occurred?

Just watching unleashed, the end scene was Ncuti’s first scene as the Doctor.

interestingly I failed to notice until the end that there were no black faces apart from the Doctor.

Being autistic I tend just to see “people” but even so it surprised me that I didn’t pick this up

There is a scene outside where you see a pair of feet and legs being dragged off to the left, leaving a smear of dark green behind.

I don't think I liked this episode. It reminded me too strongly of an episode of Black Mirror (the one with Bryce Dallas Howard), both of which I think were intended as a warning against becoming a screen zombie?? I just didn't like the feel of it. I thought the slug chomping on the man with a pair of legs hanging out of its mouth was more horror than Doctor Who usually is and thought it was a bit much. Didn't like the setting. Hated Lindy (I know we aren't supposed to like her) and I couldn't help but wonder why they were trying so hard to save somebody who was so fucking RUDE to them, so superficial and so undeserving of their help. Not enough Doctor, not enough Ruby, not enough Tardis. Tardis only got a look in right at the end - it's a character in its own right, so I missed it.

Also, getting fed up pretty quickly of the Doctor crying in every single episode. Tears streaming down his face every week. FFS. Enough already. At least there wasn't a song and dance routine in this one.

An interesting further thought to this is that the Doctor was a bit blindsided by her reaction. It's possible that in their travels, he hasn't experienced overt racism yet. He's seen it happen to others, reassured Martha, defended Bill, but not had that moment of, "oh that's why they don't like me" yet.

I thought this. He's been pretty much exclusively white male for hundreds of years so, from a human POV, completely free from discrimination.

Excluding the Ruth version but I'm still not entirely sure how she fits in!

I wouldn’t be surprised. The premise of dr who is aliens.
I think it was unnecessary of rtd to suggest it’s race rather then dr who being a different being.

As I said further up irl I do notice if I’m the only one in the room.

Apologies if anyone finds this post idiotic. Was the Dr definitely insulted because he’s black - I couldn’t work it out, because the episode was set so far in the future I sort of assumed there wouldn’t be racism.

I thought maybe Loopy Lindy went for him
because he was an alien. She was such a foul villain, what a 🤮 character. Alien would also fit with the discrimination/SM theme.

Having said that I had a nightmare about my racist boss so maybe I’m theorising too hard.

It was only because rtd in unleashed said it was because the doctor is black. I thought alien. That was enough I think.
The audience could make its own parallels.

Think if they’re going to push racism stories now just because the doctor is black feels inherently racist to me.

@Supersimkin2 you need to watch Doctor Who Unleashed on BBC 3. Yesterday’s was about Dot and Bubble. RTD and others talk about the rationale and making of it.

Perhaps if you need to watch a companion programme from behind the scenes to understand what the story was trying to achieve, then the writing isn’t strong enough 🤷‍♀️

🤷🏽‍♀️

What ethnicity are you?

There have been multiple episodes where racism has been dealth with.

I understood it without watching Unleashed so I don't think there is a problem with the writing.

Think if they’re going to push racism stories now just because the doctor is black feels inherently racist to me.

To be fair, it would have been impossible for the Doctor to have directly experienced racism before he was portrayed by a black actor.

I understood it and did pick up that everyone was White when Lindy was talking to all her friends. DS's friends thought it was going to something like they were killing brown haired people to create an Aryan master race on another planet ( they are both doing gcse history revision though, so maybe it's on their mind!) Which I thought sounded better than ' killing people alphabetically. They could have then gone for dyed blondes) I didn't think there was enough Ncuti and Millie in the episode. They are new, and for episodes, there has hardly been and Ncuti. They could have put those episodes in a bit later.

Yes I get that rtd is probably seeing an opportunity now he has Ncuti.

Were there any sexism / stereotypes for Jodie’s Doctor?

This is as late in the series as they could put the last 2 episodes as there are only 3 episodes left.
The final 2 are a double episode being shown in the cinema as well as on tv the same night.

That sounds exciting!
Can you get tickets?