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Paula - New series

382 replies

WandaOff · 12/03/2023 18:01

Channel 4 this week, documentary about Paula Yates.
She was the same age as me and I followed her career from the beginning. Had a bit of a girl crush on her and was genuinely sad when she died.

OP posts:
january123 · 25/03/2023 11:54

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor yes on You Tube

What also struck me was the child/teen like way she spoke about him. Clearly an unhealthy obsessive relationship, clashing with the reality of being a grown woman with 4 children.

Was never going to end well.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 25/03/2023 12:39

Thank you 😊

LouisCatorze · 25/03/2023 15:10

It seems very much as if her sense of self was tied up in being the sexy, young, vibrant flirt she'd been at 17 (when she made a beeline for Bob Geldof). That wouldn't have been sustainable for much longer, I wouldn't have thought.

Delatron · 25/03/2023 15:24

What struck me a bit was every time someone was a misogynist twat to her - looking at you Ian Hislop and Elton John, she didn’t argue or fight back. She just took it and looked a bit embarrassed. I did really feel for her and think she was very vulnerable

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 25/03/2023 16:25

Delatron · 25/03/2023 15:24

What struck me a bit was every time someone was a misogynist twat to her - looking at you Ian Hislop and Elton John, she didn’t argue or fight back. She just took it and looked a bit embarrassed. I did really feel for her and think she was very vulnerable

To be honest, we all kind of took it back then. It's shocking looking back on it but men were fuckers. Tbh a lot of them still are it's just we fight back now and they can't get away with the misogynistic bollox they try to dish out.

Obviously as this is MN I need to clarify not ALL men.

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 25/03/2023 17:08

LouisCatorze · 25/03/2023 15:10

It seems very much as if her sense of self was tied up in being the sexy, young, vibrant flirt she'd been at 17 (when she made a beeline for Bob Geldof). That wouldn't have been sustainable for much longer, I wouldn't have thought.

I saw a photo of her taken not long before she died and she’d aged a bit, the usual ageing most women get in their late 30s but the peroxide blonde look was looking dated and she looked quite tired.

For me, as I’ve said before she was never relevant to me as not my age or era, Dani Behr presenting The Word was probably more relatable to me but I wasn’t really into that scene, though girls in my school at 15 went to The Wag Club and socialised with Mandy Smith, Amanda de Cadenet and Emma Ridley who were more shocking to us but a bit unrelatable for their “wild child” behaviour. My own auntie was a successful model dating a horrible abusive man twice her age and has/had some famous friends mostly from the 70s. Paula’s wedding in a red dress and then having children and doing tv presenting was slightly eye opening but certainly not jaw dropping. We all liked Bob Geldof and admired and supported his charity efforts but we certainly didn’t fancy him, and some of the musicians involved.

HeadNorth · 25/03/2023 18:29

Delatron · 25/03/2023 15:24

What struck me a bit was every time someone was a misogynist twat to her - looking at you Ian Hislop and Elton John, she didn’t argue or fight back. She just took it and looked a bit embarrassed. I did really feel for her and think she was very vulnerable

I think it was also linked to her flirty sexualised way of relating to men, which was obviously not going to play well with Hislop & Merton. I remember that episode and I remember Clare Rayner being on a few weeks later. She said at the start - I’ve heard you can be hard on women so I am not going to take any nonsense from you - charmingly but firmly. They treated her with respect because she she was a formidable, clever woman who did not trade on looks.

MyopicBunny · 25/03/2023 19:23

Weren't they also vile to Gail Porter?

MyopicBunny · 25/03/2023 19:25

They treated her with respect because she she was a formidable, clever woman who did not trade on looks.

But the reason some women do trade on looks is completely down to the patriarchy. So it's a bit rich of people like Ian Hislop being nasty when he's never have been as successful if he was a woman.

Ishouldbeoutside · 26/03/2023 00:14

HeadNorth · 25/03/2023 18:29

I think it was also linked to her flirty sexualised way of relating to men, which was obviously not going to play well with Hislop & Merton. I remember that episode and I remember Clare Rayner being on a few weeks later. She said at the start - I’ve heard you can be hard on women so I am not going to take any nonsense from you - charmingly but firmly. They treated her with respect because she she was a formidable, clever woman who did not trade on looks.

Show quote history

Very good point.

IcedPurple · 26/03/2023 08:36

MyopicBunny · 25/03/2023 19:25

They treated her with respect because she she was a formidable, clever woman who did not trade on looks.

But the reason some women do trade on looks is completely down to the patriarchy. So it's a bit rich of people like Ian Hislop being nasty when he's never have been as successful if he was a woman.

Would Paula have been as successful if she had been a man?

Liorae · 26/03/2023 08:48

Or if her husband didn't own the company that employed her?

IcedPurple · 26/03/2023 08:52

Liorae · 26/03/2023 08:48

Or if her husband didn't own the company that employed her?

That too.

beguilingeyes · 26/03/2023 17:03

Her husband didn't own Record Mirror or The Tube.

irishfeminist · 26/03/2023 18:58

She was extremely well-connected though. She knew a LOT of people through Bob. There's a bit in his book where he says that early on, she used to lie around the house eating chocolates and reading novels and he got annoyed because he didnt want to financially support her and he thought she was wasting her brain. So he got her a column in Record Mirror.

IcedPurple · 26/03/2023 19:06

beguilingeyes · 26/03/2023 17:03

Her husband didn't own Record Mirror or The Tube.

No, but his connections will have done her no harm in securing those gigs.

Ishouldbeoutside · 26/03/2023 22:52

irishfeminist · 26/03/2023 18:58

She was extremely well-connected though. She knew a LOT of people through Bob. There's a bit in his book where he says that early on, she used to lie around the house eating chocolates and reading novels and he got annoyed because he didnt want to financially support her and he thought she was wasting her brain. So he got her a column in Record Mirror.

Yes I remember that

MyopicBunny · 27/03/2023 04:01

Would Paula have been as successful if she had been a man?

That's irrelevant isn't it? My overall point is that men never need to use their sexuality to be successful. But women are still raised and socialise to believe that it's their job to look attractive and youthful. And once they get to a certain age, they're on the scrap heap. Not so for men...

beguilingeyes · 27/03/2023 07:35

Women just disappear don't they. Men get older and older and they're still there.
Andrew Marr didn't suffer a blip when he had his stroke and is still visibly affected, which was admirable of the Beeb, but I can't imagine any woman presenter being allowed back on screen after that.
When they booted Miriam O'Reilly from Countryside because she was too old the headline was 'No Countryfile for old women' which I did think was clever, although the reason behind it was infuriating.
See also Moira Stuart and Arlene Phillips on Strictly...she was dumped for a younger woman who had none of her expertise (she's Arlene Phillips FFS!) while Len Goodman and Bruce Forsyth carried on and on and on.

irishfeminist · 27/03/2023 07:42

They do, to a certain extent but Paula's co-presenter on The Tube, Muriel Gray, has had a long successful career in the arts, between journalism, TV, radio and the production company she ran with her husband. Paula chose that sexualised rock chick persona, it wasn't forced on her. For those of us who remember, it was getting a bit one-dimensional and tired even before Michael Hutchence came along, she could have done so much more.

IcedPurple · 27/03/2023 10:06

MyopicBunny · 27/03/2023 04:01

Would Paula have been as successful if she had been a man?

That's irrelevant isn't it? My overall point is that men never need to use their sexuality to be successful. But women are still raised and socialise to believe that it's their job to look attractive and youthful. And once they get to a certain age, they're on the scrap heap. Not so for men...

No, I don't think it's irrelevant.

Paula Yates didn't 'need' to pursue a career based on her sexuality. She actively chose it. And that type of thing is always going to have a sell by date. I disagree that it doesn't apply to men too. It's just that trading on your perceived hotness doesn't tend to be as lucrative for men as for women. Michael Hutchence was already ageing out of the bare chested sex god thing, to give just one example.

Paula was a supposedly intelligent women with a high profile and excellent connections. She could have used all that to move on from the flirty sex kitten persona, but she chose not to.

MyopicBunny · 27/03/2023 10:24

Paula was a supposedly intelligent women with a high profile and excellent connections. She could have used all that to move on from the flirty sex kitten persona, but she chose not to.

Why did she choose not to? That is the point. She chose not to because women are told they need to be sexy to stay relevant. That is not the case with men, whether you choose to accept it or not. I certainly don't get the impression she was a nice person but societal structure does dictate how people perceive themselves and what they think they need to do to survive.

Ishouldbeoutside · 27/03/2023 10:28

She could have trained for a career or gone to University. Instead she chose to present herself in a tacky sexualised way . It was a choice. Not all women need to act in a hyper sexualised way to succeed. Muriel Gray didn’t.

IcedPurple · 27/03/2023 10:33

MyopicBunny · 27/03/2023 10:24

Paula was a supposedly intelligent women with a high profile and excellent connections. She could have used all that to move on from the flirty sex kitten persona, but she chose not to.

Why did she choose not to? That is the point. She chose not to because women are told they need to be sexy to stay relevant. That is not the case with men, whether you choose to accept it or not. I certainly don't get the impression she was a nice person but societal structure does dictate how people perceive themselves and what they think they need to do to survive.

Come on!

Half the population of the world are not passive creatures who only do as they are 'told'. Millions of women manage to build lucrative and fulfilling careers without exploiting their sexuality, and did so in Paula's day too. She had money, a high profile, great connections. Most women have none of that. Yet she was still unable to see move beyond the sexy rock chick image.

The fact is she seemed to love having men lust over her and women envy her because she was shagging the hot pieces of the day. That sort of thing was never going to be sustainable. She sneered at women who didn't have rich husbands and had to go out and earn a living. She was no feminist.

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 27/03/2023 10:35

Ishouldbeoutside · 27/03/2023 10:28

She could have trained for a career or gone to University. Instead she chose to present herself in a tacky sexualised way . It was a choice. Not all women need to act in a hyper sexualised way to succeed. Muriel Gray didn’t.

Like I’ve said before Paula wasn’t relevant to me, neither was Muriel Grey. The times I did see Muriel I thought she was savvy and clever. Paula Yates’ schtick of rolling around happened when I was 20 onwards and was embarrassing. Yes I sometimes watched it before I went to work but that was because it was new and novel.

I was a Capital Radio and then Kiss FM listener anyway not the Radio 1 type.

From my teens and 20s I regularly went to the west end as I lived fairly near, yes we saw celebs out, but you get used to them and ignore them. I’m sure I saw Paula in real life out and about probably Notting Hill but we saw so many it just didn’t register!