HAPPY VALLEY S3 - thread 7 to chat and muse about the last ever episode

[Blondeshavemorefun]

Several people have messaged me to ask if I will do another thread as still all chatting about it

6 is almost full so here you can linked to this one the previous 6

1
www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/4710280-happy-valley-series-3-bbc1-9pm-starts-1-january-2023-no-spoilers-tv-pace?reply=123037566

2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/4718852-happy-valley-series-3-bbc1-9pm-started-1-january-2023-no-spoilers-tv-pace-thread-2?reply=123279174

3
www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/4724933-happy-valley-series-3-bbc1-sundays-9pm-no-spoilerstv-pace-thread-3?reply=123400097

4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/4728813-happy-valley-s3-sundays-9pm-bbc-1-tv-pace-no-spoilers-thread-4?reply=123407648

5
www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/4731641-happy-valley-s3-tv-pace-no-spoilers-thread-5

6
www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/4736071-happy-valley-s3-tv-pace-no-spoilers-thread-6-and-episode-6-and-the-last-ever-episode-forever?reply=123662539

jitteryquick I'm pretty sure TLR wouldn't have even been taken to court to enter a guilty plea, never mind being so under guarded in the dock.

There would absolutely have been a police presence at Catherine's house while TLR was on the loose, he absolutely wouldn't have been able to break in to the front of the house in the middle of the day.

I personally wouldn't let a 13 year old watch it, probably more 15 for me (but they've probably seen loads of the scenes anyway on TIKTOK and the like).

Yes - totally ridiculous that TLR wasn’t more heavily guarded. He had killed a policewoman! I remember when that vile piece of excretement Dale Cregan went to court and he was up for multiple murders including those poor 2 policewomen - he was handcuffed and there was a huge armed presence.

The only possible explanation was that TLR was being sentenced several years after his original crimes and they had forgotten about him…or didn’t realise he had links to the underbelly.

@Hels20 I agree re CC's throwaway remark about Pfizer living so close to Joanna means he was going to get his comeuppance.

Except he didn't - it was her parents who officially reported her missing after CC clocked she wasn't responding to her calls. And I don't think we saw him reporting the body in the garage either.

He would be one of the UKs most high profile prisoners... released from prison and went on to kidnap for ransom, rape, murder of an on-duty police officer, severely beat another on-duty officer causing them grievous injury, murdered 2 men when he was on the run, poured petrol over a child... TLR would be under heavy guard everywhere he went.

Was Darius completely tricking TLR about the money/new life/Marbella etc? They seemed like good pals.

^^ If so, TLR realised from the moment he saw that car that he was on his own as Darius ultimately intended to kill him off. The new life was a ploy just to get TLR to do the job in court and in return he got TLR out but that was all.

Also, the promise of new passports - as if TLR (and Ryan) wouldn't have been on high alert for travel abroad - they'd have had to have changed their faces to get abroad via officialdom that require passports. But TLR had never been abroad so he probably wouldn't have realised that straight away. Perhaps that's why they added that conversation in - for Darius to see how naive/localised Tommy was in some ways. Perhaps he changed his mind about doing more for Tommy after that.

TLR was never going to leave.
In the first series, Catherine points out (after Claire says that he might live elsewhere upon his release from prison) that TLR is incapable of being anywhere else, that "he's the type that thinks that Manchester is abroad". He wouldn't know how to make a life for himself outside of his usual environment.
IMHO Darius probably didn't intend to kill him at first, his insistence on killing Catherine with all the attention that it would bring was likely the turning point.
Even in Happy Valley, many clearly saw the attraction of TLR, he was "engaged" to a string of ladies in season 2. Although as Catherine pointed out to Frances, it is only because he is pretty. Because if he looked like Ian Brady, Peter Sutcliffe, Jimmy Saville or any other similar predators, nobody would believe his sob stories and he wouldn't be able to manipulate women the way he does. I mean he doesn't have anything other than his looks going for him really does he, he's not particularly clever, or charming. the only way he interacts with women is to prey on them.

Yes, that's what I'm trying to think of - when was the turning point for Darius?

At first Darius seemed v genuine but then TLR's holding house set-up was v odd and TLR wasn't allowed a phone either. That would have been the same even without TLR going on about Catherine (and potentially causing Darius a problem). Initially it seemed like Darius was going to treat TLR very well, but the flash hospitality insinuated disappeared as soon as TLR arrived at the holding house.

TLR wasn't hand cuffed in court because then he wouldn't have been able to escape. Commonly known as a plot device.

And, no, we never saw the reporting of Jo's body. We have to assume her husband reported it but it was definitely a missing scene (which I grumbled about at the time).

Generally speaking, defendants are not handcuffed in UK court as a rule; special applications have to be made and it would be for the court to decide. If there was no specific threat of escape or violence known to authorities before the hearing, he would usually be uncuffed.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows what a plot device is.

I like to think of it as someone just cocked up the risk assessment. After 8yrs they just forgot what a dangerous crim he was. We all know irl he'd have had a LOD escort with everyone shouting 'armed police!' But then we wouldn't have seen the magnificent sprint down the street for his Mr Benn moment in the newsagents <some of you probs too young to know who Mr Benn was>.

The houses the gangsters use are hovels though so the house wasn't bad from that benchmark. If I was Darius I might have some reservations about TLR having a phone, because he would be straight on the phone to Ryan giving away his location. Tommy has a certain degree of cunning but isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

If any TLR fans need a little valentine's viewing here's the lovely JN looking a little more clean cut

instagram.com/stories/jamesnortonblog/3038142797043156853?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

Still would, even in white breeches and stockings 😍

Just thinking back over series 3, and my favourite scene has to be Catherine's meeting in school with Mr Hepworth and the headteacher when Mr Hepworth accused (or not!) Ryan of writing on his car. How she took charge right from the start, put everyone on the back foot, put Mr Hepworth in his place, and the little details like Ryan reaching for his lighter after the meeting and Catherine deftly swiping it away as she walked out. I just loved it.

Loved the scene when Catherine caught Clare out lying about being in Sheffield and the meeting in the coffee shop that followed. Such good writing and acting, I was completely gripped. I loved both these scenes more than the finale, I think.

Going to miss Happy Valley!

I agree the scene at school was great!

Having rewatched S1 and seeing just how terrible TLR's mother was, the 'I've never been abroad' stuff is breaking my heart all over again. What might he have been if he'd had a decent start? (Probably a wanker banker misogynist, lets not get carried away our Lavinia.)

Having adopted twice and looked at copious child protection reports - where it is evident history repeats itself - I think that is the main message that SW wanted to get across…it is nurture v nature and with a bit of luck nurture should win. Lynn Royce probably never even had a photo of Tommy, never took him on holiday. He never really had a chance.

I also thought JN’s interview with GQ was v telling and I am sure JN had discussed TLR with SW!

I think TLR thought he'd be staying in a lovely safe house, not driven back from the glorious "tops" to a shit hole - his face fell when he saw his bedroom, same old crap for him and then when he saw the wonderland of Ryan's room... I agree about the photos, he could see all Ryan's life and his mum would likely have no pics of him.
Loved the photos of a young Claire with baby Ryan and Ryan later telling CC that Claire had always been there. She is like a second mum to Ryan, even if CC is "the boss."
I think JN was wonderful as TLR. You could feel the power when he was racing along to the corner shop and stabbing his would be killers but also the intimacy and vunerability he can display. When he said how being in the countryside fed his soul and that Ryan was the only thing he ever had on that Xbox chat.

I was frustrated when CC was giving out to MT about security for TLR's court appearance but she never thought to phone the school to check Ryan had turned up ( or that the school had not phoned her to report his absence) - yes, I know it's a plot device.

Unfortunately, Lynn Royce probably had a terrible childhood herself no role model of what good parenting looks like. Cycle of abuse/neglect continues.

I think what was well done at the end of Happy Valley was that they didn't go down the road of an unrealistic realisation by Tommy of what he had done wrong himself - he was likely incapable of that for various reasons, not least that having been left to his own devices since being a tot he would have decided he knew best at all times (with nobody to tell him different). So he wasn't suddenly going to see everything he had done wrong personally, the introspection wouldn't have been there.

But - whereas Catherine maintained that Tommy was only getting to know Ryan to get back at her, it did seem that Tommy had found some sort of heart buried inside him. He recognised the good life that Ryan had been given by Catherine, and instead of being resentful or jealous because he didn't have that himself, he acted for perhaps the first time like an actual dad, putting Ryan first not his own feelings, and expressed (in TLR way, which naturally is twisted) gratitude. It was good.

I agree @Sunshineparasol . TLR has changed his position on Ryan's upbringing. In series 1 TLR was adamant that it was no way for boy to live being brought up by old women. (or words to that effect)

I still think that Becky is a bit of a mystery. I can see why she would go out with TLR initially if he was putting on the charm/vunerable boy/ cool hard kid act but I wonder why she didn't have an abortion, what her pregnancy was like, was her MH shattered during it and if post partum depression contributed to her suicide ( IIRC she killed herself a week after Ryan's birth). I seem to have forgotten some of what was said over the course of time about Becky.

TLR would always turn on people, including Ryan as soon as they did or said something he didn't like. He's a scorpion. I was glad Anne told Ryan a few home truths.

@SapatSea - Catherine (I think series 1) tells someone that Becky found out too late for a termination. And I think she killed herself 6 weeks after Ryan was born.

I think Daniel (again in series 1) gave some
insight into Becky - the best insight. He said that she had got into wrong crowd etc and was off the rails. And in the flashbacks she was taking on an alternative (goth) look. Not sure if she was doing drugs.

I expect TLR was sexy as hell and if she was on drugs could get her easy access to them. Never got the feeling he was a drug addict but perhaps he was before he went to prison first time. Got the impression Becky might have been a drug addict but that is only a feeling

@Sunshineparasol and that she could do no wrong :/