I have made the terrible mistake of starting to watch The West Wing again

[BlueRaincoat1]

... on Prime.

Sigh. I have watched it all before, but not in years. Maybe 10 years. I love it so much. I'll never get to bed at a reasonable hour again 😫So many episodes!

What are your favourite scenes? Best episodes? It's so brilliant, every time.

DP has never watched it !!!!

I know ....

My two DC share names with major characters 😁.

Right now I'm watching the second last episode of Season 1. And I know if I get to the end of this, I'll have to watch the last episode. And if I watch that, I'll HAVE to watch the first episode of season 2. What to do??!!

Ah, my people! How have I not found you before.
There is no such thing as too much West Wing.
we have just finished a re-watch, but am a little behind on the re-listen of the podcast, so that will stretch out the “decent interval” before starting over.

So many great moments mentioned…
Always enjoy Bad Moon Rising introducing Oliver Babish and the Big Hammer. 🙂

@DuchessOfPaddington I agree with the clever man telling woman stuff. The worst example is obviously Josh/Donna. The Mexico bailout bit makes me cringe.

I know Sorkin has said he deliberately didn't get them together because Josh couldn't date his assistant and it got better when she got a bit of her own agency but even in the end she was the junior partner.

I never really got how Andi was pregnant. Did she use embryos, were they sleeping together and she was unexpectedly pregnant like you sometimes hear about. I found it all very unconvincing. I do t need every single thing spelled out but that seemed an odd plot route - got them to the series end then as many long running shows do, promptly ignored them for 3 seasons.

@lugeforlife Absolutely agree. I’ve since read that Donna was there as a plot device to explain things to the audience but why did it have to be her? Charlie was just as naive about the process of government.

It’s very unsatisfying that they don’t explain Andie’s pregnancy and very male gaze-y. My headcanon explanation is that Toby consented to her using their stored embryos from the historical IVF on her own, which is how she conceived twins as a FET is more likely to split. Yes, I have massively overthought this.

That goldfish sure lives for a long time!

@DuchessOfPaddington
We came to the same conclusion in our house. Overthinkers Anonymous

Re Donna - same function as the companions in Doctor Who. She's the "asking questions one". I wonder how they would cast it today, for a post-Santos Administration re-make.

I think I remember reading that Donna wasn't originally intended to be a major character though - that was Mandy. But no one liked Mandy and Donna's character just worked, so Sorkin kept writing scenes for her.

I wonder why the actress doesn't seem to have done more - do you think she got bored of it?! She was a pretty major character by the end.

I assumed Andi's pregnancy was FET embryos. It'd be so unlikely they'd have needed fertility treatment when married then she magically got pregnant off a one night stand. I like that they don't explain things. I agree that the dynamic is often quite sexist, but a non-sexist thing I enjoy is that we really don't hear details of why relationships end. People start dating, and sometimes we just don't really hear the next bit. Margaret is pregnant, then she's not. For me it makes the women more rounded characters, because it's realistic that when you're at work, sure, you have conversations about your dating life sometimes, but there's also a lot that just never comes up.

I agree that Donna didn't start out as a main character, if you listen to Janel Moloney talk about it she thought she was only getting a few episodes - she was on the verge of quitting her acting dream when she got the part. She also said that she always played the part as if she was in love with Josh, even though there was no indication that anything would happen between them. She said it influenced every part of the role, how she spoke to him, how she looked at him, etc.

God, I love Oliver Banish. Oliver Platt is so wonderful.
Could never stand bloody Lord Marbury though. Horrible caricature.

Nether has mine and it bugs me that he doesn't get my west wing references.

Getting rid of Mandy was such a good decision. I really had to persevere with the very early episodes because her character was cringeworthy, and the tone was too earnest. By the end of season one I was utterly hooked, though.

I've never succeeded in getting DH past the first couple of episodes. He does not believe me when i say it gets better, and even Two Cathedrals out of context does look a bit naff if you're not invested in the characters.

@LemonsOnSaleAgain I love Gail's bowl. She has a podium IIRC.

I hadn't seen the podium! What a nice touch.

Absolutely adore it. Two cathedrals is spectacular acting. We have the DVD box set and we often dip in and out of series. I haven't watched it for a couple of months and now feel like I need to start all over again.
I loved Newsroom as well although a lot faster story wise.

It’s simply the greatest series I’ve ever seen. My ‘desert island discs’ of tv shows.

Favourite fun clip: The organisation of cartographers for social equality. Closely followed by Marion Coatsworth-Hay.

Favourite sad clip: Where Mrs Landingham explains why she gets down at Christmas time and the death of her boys.

Favourite overall clip: In Excelsis Deo, where Toby organises a funeral for a homeless veteran, using the President’s name. Best line:

”If we start pulling strings like this, don’t you think every homeless veteran will come out of the woodwork?”

“I can only hope, Sir”.

But there’s really far too many to choose.

The final series was effectively two stories ran on alternative weeks- The West Wing and Matt Santos campaign. Each week I was disappointed that whatever particular thread I’d just watched wouldn’t continue until two episodes time, because I’d get so invested in each story. And then feel the same the next week. Which shows just how brilliant and impactful the series was, even after the departure of Sorkin. Only thing that has ever come close for me is Line of Duty, and it hasn’t.

Oh I've found my people! We're on a rewatch now and just into season 2 and the episode where Josh sees the traumatologist. It's all just brilliant. Love the Turkey pardons too. This time is DDs first watch and she's entranced by it - she is very into politics and was all prepared to hate Ainsley Hayes until the Gilbert and Sullivan episode 😅

“Aren’t I going to get a reputation for being soft on turkeys?”

Ok I'm on to season 4 and still love it, but there are several things that bug me irrationally.

Why does it always have to be thunder and lightening when something dramatic is happening? Or torrential rain. It's like they want to add in extra tension, but its pretty ridiculous at this stage!
Josh and Donna, I'm sorry but he's such a smarmy asshole to her, and she is just hanging on waiting for him...I've heard they get together eventually, but it's been a few years of him sabotaging her anytime she has a date with someone else. She needs to move on and forget him.

I think I'm struggling with the annoying male egos in the show (yes, I know that's politics, but we are supposed to like these guys). Whoever said about Sorkin's misogyny showing wasn't wrong.

Also, as someone else mentioned, Lord Marbury is such a cringey pompous stereotype. And of course when they are talking about Irish politics, we're all just terrorists...Dead Irish Writers was one of my least favourite episodes.

I still have a crush on Toby, but he's starting to annoy me - he's not great to Andy, they don't seem suited at all. He can't seem to move on, and she doesn't seem to want him.
In the first season, they try to portray him as grumpy and cynical, but kind of sweet underneath, but the whole dynamic between the two of them is weird and annoying. Did they get back together? did she use his sperm to get pregnant (twins?). And she tends to reappear in episodes randomly for a few minutes, they don't seems to show much chemistry or affection between them.

Sorry for the ranting, I actually really like the show so am probably over invested. When did Sorkin leave? After season 4?

Yes, Sorkin goes at the end of season 4 with a major plot event that I won’t spoil in case this is your first time through!

Yes Aaron Sorkin left TWW after Season 4, which is why you'll find the resolution of the "end of season cliffhanger" at the start of season 5 a bit questionable! I won't say more than that as it's obviously a spolier.

Season 5 is awful, IMO but 6 and 7 are much better when they get into the election stuff.

Season 5 contains my favourite ever episode - The Supremes!

"I love her. I love her mind, I love her shoes!"

I thought of Sam Seaborn on education to Mallory today, when I saw Rishi Sunak in the Times "education can be our silver bullet".

I'd swap him for Sam in a heartbeat. Schools should be palaces!