Panorama - Treatment of Dairy Cattle

[SplashinginPuddles1]

Anyone else watching Panorama tonight about the treatment of cattle on dairy farms? It’s shocking and heartbreaking. Cows being hit with spades, kicked, dragged. How is this being allowed to happen?

@Suzi888

“The sheep you see limping has probably been injected with an antibiotic and a painkiller.” That makes it ok does it It’s probably limping because it’s been hit by a car. Very frequent in Wales, especially on the coast. People feed them burgers from the vans too, the sheep help themselves to the rubbish humans drop.

Don’t delude yourself. Watch it, enjoy your milk and meat knowing where it comes from. Jeez even children learn where their food comes from these days!

@dairyfarmerswife some animals mate for life, so you are quite incorrect. Including a wolf, so that blows your theory straight out the water doesn’t it.

Does it? I confess I'm not a wolf expert but from what I've just read a female wolf is likely to have a litter of pups every year for as long as she is fertile (as I expected). There seems to be conflicting info about whether they mate for life but my point was that in the wild animals continue to reproduce at regular intervals presumably with little 'choice' in the matter.

No matter how much you pay pay, sentient beings are still having their young ripped away from them hours after birth just so you can have milk in your cup of tea. Cows are lovely and intelligent creatures. If people read about a dog or cat having its young removed they'd feel very sad for the animal, yet people are prepared to accept it because it's a cow.

Since having my own baby and breastfeeding I just can't in good conscience be the cause of inflicting that mental suffering, let alone the physical suffering, on another creature when there are plenty of alternatives.

Your livelihood is based on the deaths of these animals

of course it is. We are farmers. We provide food. To produce any kind of food for a human to eat something has to die.

You can be as sentimental as you like about it as much as you like with a full tummy and 24 hour access to TESCO's pristine carrots. But you must acknowledge that is a modern western privilege that you are very lucky to have.

Since having my own baby and breastfeeding I just can't in good conscience be the cause of inflicting that mental suffering, let alone the physical suffering, on another creature when there are plenty of alternatives

So its abhorrent when its big identifiable moo cows with beautiful big moo cow eyes but fine when its deer/ rabbits/ mice/ birds/ insects/ foxes etc being mown down, shot and poisoned in the pursuit of high yields of grain, legume and vegetable crops? Do you think mother deer having lost bambi to the mower has the insight to rationalise it as being ok because it was for vegetables rather than milk?

@SagaAgain you're bang on with the 'faux handwringing' comment. How bizarre to expect sympathy because they have chosen to continue a job where they have to kill for a living.

If you hate it so much why don't you use the land for something else? There are organisations helping farmers to do just that if they want to.

A PP said to avoid cruelty they need to charge more. That's not going to happen in today's markets. Face facts, it's over. Get out now while you still can or cling on too long because it's in decline and it's never going to get better because too many people have seen the brutality.

I don't want sympathy? I just want people to stop lying about farming and farmers.

We don't like that part of the job. But its part of the job. Most people have bits of their job they don't like. At least this part of mine comes with pride that we are providing good quality food for others.

Our land is useless for anything else other than feeding sheep and cows on. Its upland pasture and fell ground. A massive carbon sink and in a national park.

You're out of touch. You don't need to feed people. More food is grown to feed animals that you keep breeding than is eaten by people. We should just cut out the middlemen (you). Animals get protein from the plants they eat. We don't need to eat them for protein. Perhaps then we could really 'feed' people properly and stop hunger. The stats on how wasteful animal agriculture is are out there for anyone wanting to look.

@Scrowy I’m with you. A lot of misinformation and vegan propaganda going on nowadays.

Animals get protein from the plants they eat. We don't need to eat them for protein.

That depends on the species though, and humans aren't natural herbivores. It's a choice we can make, especially in the modern developed world, but we evolved to get some of our nutrients from meat. We've also been drinking cow's milk for millenia. I do think we need more stringent welfare standards though and we need to be prepared to pay significantly more for meat and dairy, and to consume less of it.

@AppleJane

You're out of touch. You don't need to feed people. More food is grown to feed animals that you keep breeding than is eaten by people. We should just cut out the middlemen (you). Animals get protein from the plants they eat. We don't need to eat them for protein. Perhaps then we could really 'feed' people properly and stop hunger. The stats on how wasteful animal agriculture is are out there for anyone wanting to look.

Animals primarily eat the bits that have been discarded after the bits good for human consumption have been taken.

Only tiny part of every wheat plant grown is used for human consumption and even then only the wheat plants that meet the correct grade are used. Everything else that has been rejected, and the bits that humans don't eat at all go into animal feed of bedding.

But the people feeding you the stats and propaganda they want you to repeat conveniently forget to make that bit clear, that what the animals are using we wouldn't be using anyway.

and out of interest how are you planning on keeping soils fertile for growing all of these crops years to come without artificial fertilizers, pesticides and no animal inputs?

I'm sorry but you are being lied to by people with an agenda.

@AppleJane

You're out of touch. You don't need to feed people. More food is grown to feed animals that you keep breeding than is eaten by people. We should just cut out the middlemen (you). Animals get protein from the plants they eat. We don't need to eat them for protein. Perhaps then we could really 'feed' people properly and stop hunger. The stats on how wasteful animal agriculture is are out there for anyone wanting to look.

I think you'll find that you do indeed need farmers to feed you, what a very silly thing to say.

And no, more food is grown in the world than feed, and thankfully most of the population appreciate that.

Interesting that after one documentary nobody seems sure as to whether this sort of abuse of animals is common practice. They are vulnerable and need advocates, people to set standards and ensure that they are maintained. I hope the farm in the documentary is closed down and the perpetrators punished.

Do people really think that it’s common practice for farmers to physically abuse their animals like that?

I am a vegan so obviously I’m not in favour farming animals. Whilst I accept many farmers/workers don’t treat their animals like this, it’s not that uncommon unfortunately. The ‘good’ farmers will be appalled though as although they think it’s ok to use animals for food, it doesn’t mean they commit acts of deliberate cruelty like this one. These people are truly evil, whereas many farmers think what they are doing is right and as long as the animals aren’t deliberately hurt that what they do is ok. Obviously I don’t agree, but there’s a world of difference.

What this programme will do is to bring attention to dairy farming. That’s a good thing as many people don’t know the basics of how these cows produce milk constantly, what happens when they no longer do, what happens to male calves etc. Hopefully it’ll lead to more people being more knowledgable which is a good thing.

We should know that dairy farming, even when fine ‘well’ does mean cows not always having an great life, we should know most farmers are only doing what they believe is right but we also should know this sort of cruelty is happening.

I know people won't like this, but I'm getting tired of the money excuses. If you must keep your cattle in horrendous conditions or beat and abuse them because you can't afford to care for them properly Then don't keep cattle or any animal for that matter.

Cows are not human.Bearing in mind that mot mammals are given attachment to their young for obvious reasons then I'm sure it is distressing to them that they are removed from them.Dairy cows are 'spent ' younger than they have to be.

My partner and I do wild campingc.Sometimes on the land of a farmer (Wales,Brecon ,just give couple of quid a night to the farmer )
Whilst walking almost every time I have seen dead sheep some were in the bushes (clearly farmer hasn't seen them ) and sheep/lamb bones (probably fox?)on the field.
Besides just because it is law it doesn't make it morally right.
I have a friend who has rehomes ex battery chickens.One of the had a prolapse due to intense egg laying.The animals are bred to function in detriment to themselves.Sheep who keep growing wool till they can't walk,cows over lactating,chickens producing more eggs than good for them,chickens growing faster than their legs can hold etc...
Farming ir a brutal industry

Find it very odd.Farming and treatment of farm animals (insemination,slaughter,management in general ) is in odds to loving the animals.I love my pets and I wouldn't dream of subjecting them to that sort of treatment but perhaps its different sort of love

Selma22

I agree, farming is brutal for animals even when farmers do acts within the rules and guidelines and they’re not beating and deliberately abusing them. In my experience a lot of people aren’t aware of the practices used and really do think that chickens are roaming free if their supermarket eggs are labelled free range. That’s clever marketing methods. I saw an argument on tiktok where a woman denied farmers used artificial insemination, she said the person telling her was deluded. A relative of mine was shocked at how male chicks are killed, she genuinely didn’t know.
Lots of people talk about it being ok because they eat free range, organic, red tractor etc. They believe the animals haven’t suffered. Again, it’s clever marketing and the fact that the farming community gets a lot of protection.

The facts about farming are brutal enough for many including me to be vegan. No propaganda required.

I buy organic milk for DH (I use almond). Yesterday the organic 4 pinters were sold out in Tesco. I hope this was a direct effect of the programme.

Haven't read the thread but unfortunately dairy by its nature is incredibly cruel. Organic makes no difference to the cows. (I have heard it's worse as farmers reluctant to use antibiotics when needed..)

Here in the U.K. newborn calves are separated permanently from their mothers usually within 24-72 hours of birth, I emailed Sainsbury's, Tesco and Yeo Valley who all confirmed this.

We no longer use any dairy and have to say we all feel better for it.

These industries are running out of excuses. I'm glad.

I won’t watch but I’ve been vegan for nearly 12 years now, learning the fate of dairy calves was a turning point for me and since then I have spent time considering the moral implications of exploiting sentient beings and become certain that I want as little part in it as possible and practicable. I have also extensively looked at the peer reviewed papers on the environmental impacts of food and found that it is categorically a plant based diet which reduces the impact on climate change, rather than one with meat from animals that were local or grass fed.

It is only some farms.
The number of medical type products we get from farm animals is huge including stuff from cows lungs after slaughter that help premature babies.
There are major questions over the alternative milks. Almonds use huge volumes of water. Soya production is responsible for destruction of rain forest. Coconut or palm oil production destroys habitats. Oat milk companies who stamp out any competition or negative publicity plus the way the products are heavily processed.
Some people are starting to say alternative milks are causing digestive problems

Then there’s the fertiliser question what do you put on the land to replace nutrients. Farm yard manure or chemical fertilisers. Slurry getting into rivers is mentions (eutrophication) but the exact same issue occurs with chemical fertilisers. There is a huge energy cost to producing fertilisers, others need mining.
What do you feed babies on? This country mainly formula feeds and most bf babies are switched to formula from 6 months. The profits are huge from formula. There is the odd soy formula but some babies are allergic.?
Maybe the way forward is for every household to keep a house cow or goat then they can manage the welfare exactly how they like.
The land we graze animals on in the uk generally isn’t suitable for crop production. This isn’t true of other parts of the world though.
Would people be happy with the look of the countryside changing dramatically. For example with out sheep we would loose moorland and it would revert to woodland scrub.
There are more points but it’s really not as simple as plant milk good dairy bad.

@tothemoonandbackbuses producing plant milks have an environmental impact of course, but the environmental impact of producing dairy milk is higher than each of them, making it the worst milk choice environmentally.

Moorland reverting to woodland is not a bad thing, it's how upland Britain should look. The bare upland hills we see today are human made and unnatural.

Yes the moorland is a man made habitat but one many species rely on. It is also a natural feature that many tourists wish to visit so there would be a huge economic impact.
The heavily processed aspect of the plant milks isn’t great for human health. Milk can have a much lower environmental footprint if it’s delivered siffertly

@SplashinginPuddles1

Interesting that after one documentary nobody seems sure as to whether this sort of abuse of animals is common practice. They are vulnerable and need advocates, people to set standards and ensure that they are maintained. I hope the farm in the documentary is closed down and the perpetrators punished.

On the contrary, many who have actual experience of dairy farming are assuring you this is not the norm.

The cows are the farmers livelihood - very often one they are born into and following several generations - it doesn’t pay to have poorly kept, poorly treated animals.

Of course with the misleading vegan agenda (and it really is, so much bullshit (pun intended) being spouted, from the way animals are treated and fed to the fact that nutrients are far more bioavailable in the form of animal foods, and a vegan diet without expensive supplements can leave many malnourished) it suits the media and people to go down a route of farming = bad practice, bad people.