Panorama - Treatment of Dairy Cattle

[SplashinginPuddles1]

Anyone else watching Panorama tonight about the treatment of cattle on dairy farms? It’s shocking and heartbreaking. Cows being hit with spades, kicked, dragged. How is this being allowed to happen?

Fair point Tunnel! I’m disgusted myself but I need to accept I am a hypocrite because I’ll never be able to go vegan or veggie.

please watch this is Earthling Ed a vegan activist an amazing human speaking out for animals , also check out those vegan guys they are down to earth lovely couple from North of England, they do shopping vloggs and recipes helping people who either are vegan or thinking about it some great videos best place to start 😀

When there is such a small profit margin for farmers on the price of milk then its hardly surprising that the welfare of the animals might suffer.
Some of the distressing footage in this programme is not representative of the industry as a whole though and its not fair on farmers who dedicate there lives to working long hours for little return to care for the animals on the farm.
There's a bigger question here about the consumer paying a fair price for a good product that allows for a high level of animal care and husbandry.
Supermarkets have squeezed food producers to provide more for less while making handsome profits just to distribute and sell the produce.
If a system similar to Fair-trade was in effect it would help.
It can't be right to import cheap foreign food when we could produce a significant amount in the U.K. I think the issue of food security and self sufficiency was clearly demonstrated during the pandemic.

Separating calves from their mothers no matter how gently it's done is still immoral and cruel in my opinion and in my experience of watching it being done many times.

I total agree cushioncovers 👏

So is the alternative that people want genuinely no dairy products at all or are people hoping to find a way to make the separation easier on the calves?

I don’t mean that in a confrontational way, I am just wondering what the alternative is.

Just buy organic milk. More expensive but the cows have better lives. We buy organic and use less to minimise cost.

I watched it and found it so upsetting. I am mostly plant based but do buy some things with dairy in - mostly rubbish that I can easily cut out! packet pasta quick meals, chocolate, biscuits. so its made me want to stop buying those altogether.

I do feel for some of the farmers. some obviously care for their animals and look after them well, but they will still all be used and then slaughtered. I'm just not comfortable with that. I think programmes like this are good, even if not all farmers are like this, some are and thats not good enough. People need to know so they can make informed decisions. if it helps people consider what price they pay for animal products, buying a more expensive product instead of the cheapest, I think that's not a bad thing.

Is organic not more to do with pesticides on the grass etc? Excuse my ignorance.

I'm wondering whilst using cereals, nuts and grains as a method of producing dairy substitutes will this have a different impact on the environment.
I have read about the huge areas of natural environment and vegetation being cleared for almond nut groves in some countries. How much land does it take to produce a pint of oat milk? Is this really a sustainable option if the majority of the population turned dairy free?
There are bigger issues and effects at play here that do require some consideration. Our lust for the avocado has had massive negative implications, environmental and economic is the growing regions of South America.
Our first world consumption does come with some debatable ethics in poorer producing countries that we can't just ignore.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46654042

@saleorbouy

I'm wondering whilst using cereals, nuts and grains as a method of producing dairy substitutes will this have a different impact on the environment. I have read about the huge areas of natural environment and vegetation being cleared for almond nut groves in some countries. How much land does it take to produce a pint of oat milk? Is this really a sustainable option if the majority of the population turned dairy free? There are bigger issues and effects at play here that do require some consideration. Our lust for the avocado has had massive negative implications, environmental and economic is the growing regions of South America. Our first world consumption does come with some debatable ethics in poorer producing countries that we can't just ignore.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46654042

Oat milk is one of the best options. Almond has much higher environmental impact but still not as high as dairy.

Brbreeze
Interesting link, thanks. I'm always keen to see the full picture and this article has helped.

Do people really think that it’s common practice for farmers to physically abuse their animals like that? That’s like saying that because we see one Panorama with an abusive care worker that they’re all like that …

No, of course they’re not all like that, but these are not one-off documentaries. There have been many such revelations over the years. I’m afraid that instances of ill-treatment are much more commonplace both in the care sector and in the farming industry than most people would like to acknowledge. Understandably, because it is so distressing to contemplate that these might be anything other than isolated incidents. They are not, unfortunately.

I won't be watching because I won't be able to hold it together. Always had quite a visceral reaction to seeing animals being mishandled and put through modern-day farming procedures and it does me no good. I do what little I can by avoiding meat and fish and dairy to lessen my own impact, but cannot get involved in the research and self-education side as it's too fucking heartbreaking, but I wish everyone would watch this programme

Thank you for posting this. I was vegan for a year but gradually slipped back into dairy because I felt that I wasn’t making a difference and the rest of my family were still eating meat and dairy I can’t bring myself to watch the programme but I am going out right now to get oat milk and cheese substitute

@Raven72

Taking away the calves is abuse , it causes stress for both the cows and their babies . People no this is bad and yet carry on eating meat , eggs and dairy its not until you go vegan and research you realise how mad it all is , humans are the only species to drink another mammals milk , that milk is full of hormones and is meant to raise a calf into a full grown cow its not meant for us thats why most humans are intolerant. NOT YOUR MUM NOT YOUR MILK.

Which hormones? Are you in the US?

This post is more about the animals and not about the environment, but you've raised the issue but please do more research , also the cows poop is pumped into rivers polluting our waters and thats a human error

@BiancaWhite

Just buy organic milk. More expensive but the cows have better lives. We buy organic and use less to minimise cost.

I used to think that. But the abusive practices still takes place, organic or not, sadly.

@Raven72

please watch this is Earthling Ed a vegan activist an amazing human speaking out for animals , also check out those vegan guys they are down to earth lovely couple from North of England, they do shopping vloggs and recipes helping people who either are vegan or thinking about it some great videos best place to start 😀

I have a lot of respect for Ed. He is so good at articulating the problems with the meat and dairy industry in a respectful, non confrontational way.

I haven't watched the programme because it is produced by a Vegan activist and therefore biased by it's very nature. Sorry.

However, I do find it interesting that there are several/many weekly farming documentaries on TV each and every week. It's actually hard to avoid them. They are all, without exception, striving for ethical or organic farming, their animals all have lovely lives, and yet one singular programme of abusive behaviour is taken as indicative of the norm. Why are you not applauding all the other programmes, which show a completely different reality.

Oat milk has the lowest carbon footprint of the plant milks.

I usually get the milk from Yeo Valley organic - it's more expensive (and going up I noticed) but feel it is better

The think the fact that some farmers are abusive, is a Totally different issue to being vegan. Some parents are abusive. Some People are abusive to cats and dogs but that doesn't mean to say we shouldn't have pets. The abuse on those farms should stop. Can anyone ever make it stop?

@Lovinglavidaloca

Is organic not more to do with pesticides on the grass etc? Excuse my ignorance.

Within the dairy industry, organic does restrict some pesticide use on food fed to the cows, but it also restricts drugs for the cow too. Where a conventional farmer might treat an ill cow with the painkillers and antibiotics needed for an infection, an organic farmer has to weigh up the cost of treating the cow and wasting the milk, or leaving it with no treatment and keeping the milk (which leaves it 'organic' but I'm not sure it's best for the cow?). Just because something is organic, it doesn't make it any better. Organic fruit/veg is sprayed with pesticides, just with different thresholds or chemicals and with a more relaxed quality standard. If people were happier to eat food with blemishes and the odd slug/worm, everything would be organic.