Panorama - Treatment of Dairy Cattle

[SplashinginPuddles1]

Anyone else watching Panorama tonight about the treatment of cattle on dairy farms? It’s shocking and heartbreaking. Cows being hit with spades, kicked, dragged. How is this being allowed to happen?

There are natural hormones in the milk from the mother cow they are NOT put there , its just nature same as we release hormones, the only thing they inject cows with is antibiotics to stop cattle becoming ill and thats going into you when you drink it which will make you immune to antibiotics, not a good thing

it also restricts drugs for the cow too. Where a conventional farmer might treat an ill cow with the painkillers and antibiotics needed for an infection, an organic farmer has to weigh up the cost of treating the cow and wasting the milk, or leaving it with no treatment and keeping the milk (which leaves it 'organic' but I'm not sure it's best for the cow?).

Absolutely 100% incorrect. Every drug/medicine an animal is given has a withholding time before the meat or milk can enter the food chain. A conventional farmer can continue when the withholding time is completed, an organic has to continue for 3 weeks longer.

For example if a drug has a withholding time of 1 week, the organic will be 3 weeks.

All organic animals get the same treatment as prescribed by the vet, they are not restricted at all.

I've not watched it and won't
I don't feel I 'need' to.

Not eaten dairy in 21 years, I don't agree with how the animals are treated and i think its weird to drink another animals milk anyway.

I'm making a right mess of this, it's all in the wrong order.

Animal products cause inflammation in human bodies. When I switched all my joint pain went away over night. It was like flipping a switch. Lots of info on internet for anyone who is interested. Especially not for profit website 'nutritional facts dot org'.

Organic farmers (I am one) are absolutely allowed to use pain killers and antibiotics. There is, as a pp has said, a longer period where the milk and meat cannot go into the food chain. However organic farmers are encouraged not to blanket treat livestock with antibiotics and instead use better management to prevent illness in the first place. An example of this would be ensuring good ventilation and and airflow to prevent cattle getting pneumonia rather than blanket treating them as a preventative.

The examples of mistreatment in the Panorama documentary are not acceptable to the majority of farmers and we condemn the cruel treatment and attitudes. I would also point out that animal cruelty extends into the wider community be that dogs kept shut in while the owner is at work or hamsters kept in an unnatural cage and running in a wheel.

The issue of taking calves away from their mothers is a complex one but I must point out that at no point are these calves deprived of their mother's milk. It's a case of us having the milk as well as the calf, not instead of. There are hygiene and disease risks keeping the calf with the cow including diseases which as an industry we are actively encouraged to control and reduce. As I said it's complex but my calves are tonight snuggled up in a warm straw pen with their friends and tummies full of milk.

but my calves are tonight snuggled up in a warm straw pen with their friends and tummies full of milk.

Come now, what silly language. They'd rather have their mothers. There is a dairy farm near me. The mother's cries are torturous.

Someone mentioned cow poo being pumped into rivers - I live on a rural area surrounded by farms, all put the poo back on the land, reducing the need for man made chemicals which have a detrimental effect on wildlife.

Honestly the vegan bias is so strong, lacking in any balance.

@AppleJane

but my calves are tonight snuggled up in a warm straw pen with their friends and tummies full of milk.

Come now, what silly language. They'd rather have their mothers. There is a dairy farm near me. The mother's cries are torturous.

On my non dairy farm we keep our calves with their mothers until a natural weaning point.

I've just come inside from checking on them - all the cows are sat chewing their cud in their own cubicles and the calves through choice have all snuck through a calf sized gap to the loose straw bedded area and are snuggled up together on the straw. No one is forcing them to do that they choose to do that.

Sheep and lambs often do the same if they are housed inside.

When the time comes to wean we just close the calf sized gap for a few days. The cows and calves can still see, touch and hear each other but the calves can't physically get to the cows udder. Both cow and calves still make an absolute racket for a few days, then they pretty much forget about it.

Cows aren't people, they are beautiful animals in their own right with their own personalities but they don't have human feelings.

Why do people who clearly have absolutely no idea what farming is actually like insist on spouting complete rubbish.

@OutsideVoice

Someone mentioned cow poo being pumped into rivers - I live on a rural area surrounded by farms, all put the poo back on the land, reducing the need for man made chemicals which have a detrimental effect on wildlife.

Honestly the vegan bias is so strong, lacking in any balance.

The Environment Agency take water samples constantly. Any river pollution from slurry is acted on very quickly usually and breaches even if accidental can lead to large fines for farmers.

There is a huge (legislative) push at the moment for farmers to get slurry stores and silage pits covered to reduce run off even further than they have done so already.

There are very specific rules if you farm in a Nitrate Vulnerable Zone (NZV) 55% of farmland in England is under NVZ rules. Again, these are heavily monitored and lead to heavy financial penalties if breached.

www.gov.uk/government/collections/nitrate-vulnerable-zones

I feel like the farming misinformation police at the moment but I don't know any other sector that comes so regularly under attack by people who think they know more about it than the people actually doing it because of something they watched on YouTube.

Yes that’s what I was trying to say RE the organic. The PP said ‘just buy organic’ as if that fixes things but wtf does organic have to do with welfare? It’s scary that people think that way.

Even if cows were not abused as shown in the programme you would think as women we would understand that impregnating someone over and over again to use their milk and take away their young is abuse.
I have seen so much neglect when it comes to farm animals (limo sheep ,dead lambs, pigs with chopped off ears and tails,chickens kept indoors etc ).For farmers they are means to income and not pets...afterall if they viewed them them as such sending them to die would be painful

@Selma22

Even if cows were not abused as shown in the programme you would think as women we would understand that impregnating someone over and over again to use their milk and take away their young is abuse. I have seen so much neglect when it comes to farm animals (limo sheep ,dead lambs, pigs with chopped off ears and tails,chickens kept indoors etc ).For farmers they are means to income and not pets...afterall if they viewed them them as such sending them to die would be painful

Cows are not humans.

They don't think 'here is the farmer who put the bull in the same shed with me, who then impregnated me year after year, then this same farmer takes my babies away from me every year and I hate him and he is abusing me and I'm traumatised'

They think - 'oh here is the person shape that gives me food every day. Moo'
(If they are really friendly cow they might even come for a head scratch)

Where are you seeing all these dead and dying animals littering the countryside? Its not a version of the countryside I have ever seen (although like people, sometimes animals get sick and die, sadly).

The sheep you see limping has probably been injected with an antibiotic and a painkiller. Its still going to limp until it feels better. Dead lambs - where are you seeing these? Sometimes if a fox nicks one or one falls in a stream or something you might come across them but farmers don't just leave them strewn across fields. For obvious reasons.

All chickens are kept indoors at the moment. Its the law. The government enforces it.

I've no idea about the pig industry - but any pigs i've ever seen have tails and ears.

When you have seen these things have you taken pictures, reported to trading standards/ DEFRA/ Red Tractor etc?

@SplashinginPuddles1

I’d be happy to pay more for milk and any other produce if it would mean that animals were treated properly.

Buy organic milk. To get organic certification the farmer must also show good levels of animal husbandry and care. Also buy organic eggs.

I buy organic for the benefit of the animal rather than my own.

Oat milk has a horrible coating texture and flavour IMO. But v much personal taste.

@Selma22

Even if cows were not abused as shown in the programme you would think as women we would understand that impregnating someone over and over again to use their milk and take away their young is abuse. I have seen so much neglect when it comes to farm animals (limo sheep ,dead lambs, pigs with chopped off ears and tails,chickens kept indoors etc ).For farmers they are means to income and not pets...afterall if they viewed them them as such sending them to die would be painful

I take huge exception to this comment. Every farmer I know became a farmer because they love their animals. It's not like they would do it for the money and it's all consuming. It's not a job, it's your life.

@Lovinglavidaloca

Yes that’s what I was trying to say RE the organic. The PP said ‘just buy organic’ as if that fixes things but wtf does organic have to do with welfare? It’s scary that people think that way.

There are a number of the legal organic standards specifically relating to animal welfare. These are to do with stipulating the number of days a cow must be out at grass for example. Organic herds are not allowed to be housed 24/7 365 days of the year. There are rules about the proportion of their diet which must come from forage - grass/hay/silage, rather than cereals like wheat/barley/soya. Plus many more rules - we only have dairy cows but there will also be specific rules applying to pigs, poultry and sheep welfare. We are inspected annually and the inspector has access to all our records - medicine adminstration, financial, cleaning, registration of births, deaths and movements. It's extremely thorough.

None of that is to say that the non organic dairy industry is cruel by comparison. Please don't judge the thousands of farmers who work hard to ensure the highest standards of animal welfare every day by the terrible actions on that one farm.

From a broader point of view we do not use any pesticides so insects are allowed to flourish, pollinating trees, flowers and crops, helping provide food in the natural way for birds and small mammals. Any animal feed we buy inust also be produced without pesticides. I would suggest that is welfare of a much wider number of creatures.

We also do not use any artificial fertilisers. The production of artificial nitrogen uses huge amounts of electricity - a different issue I know but another important one.

after all if they viewed them them as such sending them to die would be painful

It is painful.

We never like doing it. We send all our fattened lambs 'deadweight' on my farm which means we load them all onto a wagon at the farm and they go straight to the slaughterhouse.

My OH paces the floor until the kill sheet comes through by email, which is usually minutes after they have been killed. He hates the thought of the animals he has raised from birth and cared for until they got onto that wagon in their final hours and wants it to be over as quickly as possible for them.

The breeding sheep we don't send for slaughter (we have around 2000 lambs a year born on our farm and around 850 go on for breeding, 600 of those to other farms elsewhere in the country) he will make sure that when they get sold in their lots of 10/20 or whatever that sisters/ friends he recognises out of 1000s of lambs born that year go on to their next home together.

Any farmer that thinks its acceptable to treat an animal badly isn't someone I would want to be associated with the farming industry.

@Selma22

Even if cows were not abused as shown in the programme you would think as women we would understand that impregnating someone over and over again to use their milk and take away their young is abuse. I have seen so much neglect when it comes to farm animals (limo sheep ,dead lambs, pigs with chopped off ears and tails,chickens kept indoors etc ).For farmers they are means to income and not pets...afterall if they viewed them them as such sending them to die would be painful

Anyone who has ever watched a wildlife programme has surely realised that reproduction in the animal world is very different. Monkeys, or Lions or Wolves, do not settle down with their mate, have 2.4 children and live their life in wedded bliss. Animals living in herds or packs breed repeatedly, the females having no choice in the matter. You cannot put human feelings and expectations on an animal.

He hates the thought of the animals he has raised from birth and cared for until they got onto that wagon in

He doesn't hate it that much when he keeps doing it and has based his livelihood upon it.

@SagaAgain

He hates the thought of the animals he has raised from birth and cared for until they got onto that wagon in

He doesn't hate it that much when he keeps doing it and has based his livelihood upon it.

Its one small aspect of what we do.

Most of our income comes from selling the 600 'Mule Gimmer Lambs' (female lambs) every year, which form part of the national flock of breeding female sheep for the next 6 - 7 years of their lives.

We keep around 250 swaledale gimmer lambs to breed from ourselves again for the next 6 - 7 years

all the male mule lambs and male swaledale lambs cannot be used on our farm, so when they are between 7 - 10 months old. No one else wants them. So they become roast dinners, pet food, glue, candles, sheepskin for clothing/ boots/ leather bags/ shoes etc.

the older breeding sheep at 6 - 7 years old once they have lost most of their teeth or are starting to have other joint issues etc get fattened up and go for kebabs, pet food etc etc.

If we had the option to have on farm slaughter or a local slaughter house we would use it. We don't have those options at the moment.

We are kind to our animals while they are in our care. We treat them well. We give them the best life we can and we feel sadness that their death involves a wagon journey and a trip through a strange slaughter house. But we aren't sentimental about it.

The unhappiest animal on my farm is the cat because we put a bell on him to give the birds and the squirrels a fighting chance.

Watch the Alpro and co shares go up....

“The sheep you see limping has probably been injected with an antibiotic and a painkiller.” That makes it ok does it It’s probably limping because it’s been hit by a car. Very frequent in Wales, especially on the coast. People feed them burgers from the vans too, the sheep help themselves to the rubbish humans drop.

Don’t delude yourself. Watch it, enjoy your milk and meat knowing where it comes from. Jeez even children learn where their food comes from these days!

@dairyfarmerswife some animals mate for life, so you are quite incorrect. Including a wolf, so that blows your theory straight out the water doesn’t it.

@Suzi888

“The sheep you see limping has probably been injected with an antibiotic and a painkiller.” That makes it ok does it It’s probably limping because it’s been hit by a car. Very frequent in Wales, especially on the coast. People feed them burgers from the vans too, the sheep help themselves to the rubbish humans drop.

Don’t delude yourself. Watch it, enjoy your milk and meat knowing where it comes from. Jeez even children learn where their food comes from these days!

@dairyfarmerswife some animals mate for life, so you are quite incorrect. Including a wolf, so that blows your theory straight out the water doesn’t it.

Or you know, any one of a number of normal causes for sheep limping that don't involve being hit by cars or eating burgers.

I know exactly where my milk and meat come from. I enjoy it even more because of that.

I bloody hope children are learning where their food comes from because we are in trouble if the majority of the next generation believe it comes from a supermarket shelf like it seems most people born after 1985 seem to think.

some animals mate for life, so you are quite incorrect. Including a wolf, so that blows your theory straight out the water doesn’t it

no, it doesn't. It also doesn't even take advanced 'google skills' to find out that wolves don't mate for life.

Perhaps its time to reconsider the quality of your ability to properly use the internet for research, and the impact it has on your critical thinking skills and knowledge base.

Its one small aspect of what we do.

Not that small. Not small at all in fact. That's a lot of sheep you send to slaughter and all will be slaughtered in the end.

For all the faux handwringing about how much your husband supposedly hates doing it, you continue to send a lot of animals to their death. It clearly doesn't trouble you enough to stop doing it. Your livelihood is based on the deaths of these animals.

And no matter how "kind" you are to them, though I don't see much kindness in what you say above, you are ultimately sending them to their deaths. I think that far outweighs any supposed kindness.