Who killed Billie-Jo?

[Sidge]

Did anyone watch this?

I remember this awful event. The documentary last night was very interesting.

You can't make it more than a few minutes - all the verified trips between make it about three. The police case is that it all happened after his daughters left the house, before he joined them at the car

If it had happened earlier then his daughters never mentioned that he changed his clothes, if they didn't notice then what did ye do with them? How did he dispose of them so fast and efficiently that they were never found while he was at all points apart from a few minutes with two of his daughters? His daughters were absolutely adamant about timings. In fact it was one of them that noticed the back door was open on their return and she was utterly certain it had been closed when they ALL left.

Also, the back door (or rather gate) had a tendency to not stay closed if it wasn't locked so they'd use something to wedge it closed. I think a plant pot or similar. This had been moved upon their return hence the back gate being and staying open. Again, it wasn't Sion who first noticed this.

As someone else said, Gaimster didn't even decide to share this nugget of information about SJ kicking the living daylights put of her until he'd been interviewed numerous times. This alone would have made him an unreliable witness but because it lent weight to the police's theory it was accepted as absolute fact.

The case always was about trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole.

Why did his own friend testify that he had seen him assaulting Billie if it wasn't true?

The lack of blood is odd but not the calmness after an attack. My ex was like this . At the time it was the most confusing thing of the whole abuse hell . And the sudden switch . So i wouldn't put his calmness as 'evidence for the defence' .

Police pressure maybe? Did you see something? Yes. What did you see? Could it have been....?

Look up false internalised confessions. Although he wasn't confessing to anything, it does illustrate how easily we can be made to believe things. People have been left utterly convinced they are guilty of crimes to the point of confession after a police grilling.

I also concur a lack of emotion or apparent calmness proves nothing.

Some people do go icy cold in the face of trauma- look at Kate McCann
I’m the same. When there was a traumatic event at school when I was 17 mine were the only parents who were called because everyone else was crying etc and I didn’t outwardly react so they thought I was in deep shock or something.
Although I actually think SJ WAS guilty I don’t think you can judge his guilt based on his calmness after Bille-jo was killed

@bottleofbeer

If it had happened earlier then his daughters never mentioned that he changed his clothes, if they didn't notice then what did ye do with them? How did he dispose of them so fast and efficiently that they were never found while he was at all points apart from a few minutes with two of his daughters? His daughters were absolutely adamant about timings. In fact it was one of them that noticed the back door was open on their return and she was utterly certain it had been closed when they ALL left.

Oh I don't think he did it. I just wondered if someone else could've done it earlier and them not notice. She was obviously still alive when neighbour got there, so the time of death doesn't help.

I tend to go icy calm too. In the moment I'm almost hysterical but then I just go deadly calm.

Yes, she was still alive when she was found. She could never have survived but she wasn't yet dead. Even dead bodies can exhale but the fact she wasn't dead and a last exhalation is normal lends more weight to the exhalation theory.

It's actually annoying me that I can't find my blood spatter notes because I think they'd help refresh my memory about spatter in general. But I'm as close to certain as I can be that he should have been sopping in blood and that exhalation explains the minute droplets on his clothes than him violently attacking the poor child.

@LoseLooseLucy

Why did his own friend testify that he had seen him assaulting Billie if it wasn't true?

This really baffles me. IF he saw what he alleges, how come he told no one at the time? I'm sure as hell any one of us would be straight on the phone to the police if we saw a man repeatedly kicking a child.

What does everyone here think of Lois? I'm not too sure about her myself.

@Bellusaurus

I do think though that being relatively wealthy, well connected and middle class helped him. And a sort of public school handsome white man privilege

He does not come across in that way to me at all. Teachers are not wealthy or particularly well connected and he does not have the air of a public school educated man at all. He comes across as quite bolshy and chippy whereas public school educated men of his age tend to be (superficially) charming and self effacing.

I would say that he wanted to be seen as a well connected public school type but in actual fact was not.

Lois? Well at his last appeal she and her new parter sat directly behind Sion and made a point of laughing at him and taking the piss. Just why?

She claimed a bust eardrum caused by Sion that required hospital treatment but there were absolutely no records that backed this up.

She was, by many accounts quite a peevish woman who wasn't particularly well liked but in fairness, these things were also said about SJ so I'll treat them in the sake manner - speculation.

If I had to give you an opinion and I am more than aware that my opinion counts for very little. I'd say she was the more negative force in that household.

Same*

Interesting bottleofbeer I have to say I got bad vibes off her.
I also found it weird how she took the dog out with her to the shops. Billie Jo had already walked it in the morning so wouldn't it have been easier to leave it at home? (Unless of course it was making a lot of noise!!).
I think there's so much we don't know about what went on behind closed doors in that home.

Lois? Well at his last appeal she and her new parter sat directly behind Sion and made a point of laughing at him and taking the piss. Just why?

What the hell?!! Why would they do that?

Lois grew up in a very religious family but it was quite alternative religion. Dare I say cultish?

I'd absolutely love to know more about her. She was absolutely instrumental in having SJ put away.

Lois was quite left wing, as am I. Sion actually ran for Tory councillor. If my husband did that it would be a HUGE issue for our marriage. If our ideals were so at odds.

Sion stands for most things I hate. But when I out my objective head on, I can't make it work. I can't find a single piece of compelling evidence.

Put*

After seeing the documentary, DH asked why SJ rang the female neighbour. Any ideas?

@ifIwerenotanandroid

After seeing the documentary, DH asked why SJ rang the female neighbour. Any ideas?

Was it not just for help - the nearest responsible adult around? With one dead / dying child and her two distraught younger sisters to cope with? Seems a sensible thing to do if you were at all familiar with the neighbours, and they seem to have been quite close.

It was after he rang 999 I believe, he also tried to phone Lois but her phone was off, I think.

On paper SJ looks like the obvious candidate but I can't see it either how he could have actually done it. Lois gives me big creeps, a real visceral reaction. I'm another one who thinks what the hell went behind closed doors .

@bottleofbeer I really enjoy reading your insights about the case!

Uglymodernwindows, thank you. Just remember they are only thoughts x

You're faced with this absolute horror. You call the emergency services and then a trusted friend? Is that really so strange?

I think that's absolutely normal.

Nothing about his behaviour is odd, it's well within the bounds of the behaviour of somebody in a state of shock.

He had to defend that for years.