Who killed Billie-Jo?

[Sidge]

Did anyone watch this?

I remember this awful event. The documentary last night was very interesting.

The tent peg that was too heavy for a grown man to swing behind his back. Being held by a man's hand quite easily I'd say.

Is that the one? 😬 Yeah I know my DP would be able to swing that.

It's being held, resting on four fingers. I could swing that a fair few times and I'm not a very big person. This is my point (I think) SJ was made a folk devil, any bad points were made a huge deal of. He lied on his CV, yeah, not great but he did hold an M.Ed. He had years of experience, he hadn't walked in off the street with a GCSE and a handful of fake certificates.

And when a really salient point about the lack of spatter on his back is made, the police tell us the peg was way too heavy for him to swing when it clearly isn't. There was an agenda on both sides but the media narrative was that he was BADDDDD, full stop.

I'm musing here, nothing more. We were weeks away from a landslide Labour government victory. The political climate of the time was very much "we've had enough of the interests of certain classes being looked out for". Sion WAS part of those classes, he'd even considered running for Tory Councillor. He was a prime candidate for folk devil of the day.

I did think it was a poor point in the documentary "he was a liar so God knows what he was capable of"...

It's just such mundane stuff, things you'd never think about ever again that it hung on. Pointless trip to the shop because you already had what you were going for? Taking a longer route to avoid a 3 point turn on a busy road? When they're building a case against you on evidence like that and people are saying "well, I'D never go to buy more white spirit without checking whether or not I already had some!". Oh please. It's like taking a load of clean washing upstairs and forgetting to take the dirty stuff down for the wash and your life hinging on something you'd never have given a second thought to again in your entire life. Well I WOULD NEVER forget to take the dirty washing down. Of course not, nothing would ever slip your mind like that, nothing that mundane.

@bottleofbeer I agree with you on the general point, but didn't the documentary say SJ drove round part of the route twice before arriving at the shop, as well as not having any means to pay once he got there?

But then, we've all had days like that. The number of times I've driven into town & walked into the bank ready to pay a bill, only to realise I've left it at home, is nobody's business. And I don't have arguing teenage daughters to organise.

Having seen the documentary & listened to the podcast someone upthread recommended, it seems impossible to say one way or the other. What I was left wanting more information about was (a) how big the garden was & how visible the tent pegs were from different places, (b) the black plastic bag on the patio & whatever was inside it, (c) how ANYBODY is supposed to have done it & left without visible blood on them, including the plastic-man, the alleged stalker & the mystery man in the overcoat.

Also, what was SJ's car & where did the girls sit? TV showed an MGB roadster & talked about putting the top up; podcast said it was a Rover MG coupe.

Podcast I heard was Persons Unknown, not Red Handed, sorry.

I'll answer as best I can! The bin liner was being used for Billie-Jo to sit on so she didn't get paint everywhere (which she managed to anyway!). The garden was more of a yard and from photos it wasn't very big. The tent pegs were apparently on a small table as they'd been clearing the shed out, so we're easily to hand for whoever attacked her. But using an implement smacks of a bit more premeditation than losing your rag and slapping somebody. So we have to accept that Sion was so overcome with rage he didn't slap her, he's deliberately picked it up and imo to do that is intent to seriously injure or kill. Had she really annoyed him that much? Even heat of the moment doesn't suggest using a deadly weapon on her. And this was a prolonged, frenzied attack. His demeanour when he gets back into the car is totally normal. That would suggest psychopathy and I've seen no evidence of that in him. A bit narcissistic? Yes, I can see that but full blown psychopathy? Even if you've got a temper and can and have lashed out in the past, a repeated, horribly violent attack like that seems out of place.

If somebody else did it and was covered in blood you have to assume they were seen, they may not have been. Or if they were wearing dark clothing, the blood might not have been obvious at a passing glance.

I believe the car was a roadster, one girl sat in the front with him and the others in the back. Whichever, there were enough seats in the car for more than two people.

I can't recall the reason he drove around more than once though, sorry!

Also, I don't entirely trust Lois, that's not to say I think she was a liar about possible abuse but I don't think she was entirely honest either. I'm trained in police interviewing techniques and believe me you have to be a career criminal or hard as nails not to be worn down. They know exactly what they're doing. His daughter's account never ever wavered, despite pressure from police and her mother. In fact she appeared as a witness for the defence when Lois was a witness for the prosecution.

I don't like SJ, but something is also very off about Lois.

I read SJ's book years ago. Some of the arguments were plausible, others not so much. All the way through there was a sense of Jenkins feeling misunderstood, unable to know why his wife would suddenly turn against him. It was as though in his mind the DV never happened.
I don't think in the book that it gave the daughters version of events as Lois wouldn't allow them to testify. I kept thinking really we only have his version of the timeline. If the girls were out front washing the car, could he have killed her, wrapped up the bloodied clothing and put it in the car to dispose of later. It was noted that he went to sit in his car when everything was going on. Why wasn't he comforting his daughters who after all initially discovered Billie. Why didn't HE go to the patio first with the white spirit as he had been so keen for Billie to clean up the mess. In fact on the photos shown, there was hardly any at all.
If there would have been so much blood on whomever killed her, why wasn't any discovered on the steps or the side gate? I think who ever it was got changed (at least their upper clothing inside the house)
Lastly, the 999 call is so dispassionate and matter of fact. No sense of urgency in his voice. I know he will have been calm as a deputy head but this was family. A young girl who had lived with them for the past five years.

He never changed his clothing at any point. That's not in doubt.

He sat in the car yes, odd. The thinking being that it would explain any blood found in it but it could equally have been a shock reaction. That's why this case is so, so hard to conclude. There are counter explanations for everything which is why it could never be established beyond reasonable doubt.

I severely cut my arm once. It was bad enough for an emergency ambulance. I was in shock and at the time I thought VERY clearly that if I hid in the garage so the paramedics couldn't find me then it would all go away. I was certain of this. It was utterly logical and my husband had to stop me which I found so strange, why couldn't he see this was the most sensible course of action?

That's what shock does, and I dare say finding your daughter like that is a hell of a lot more shocking than cutting your arm open.

Wow, I didn't realise you were so into it, thanks! I was asking questions to the ether.

I was wondering about the black bag/plastic up the nose: somewhere I heard that the bag had a fabric item inside it, & I wondered if the attacker could've picked it up by the empty edge of the bag & held it in front of him/herself to keep blood spatter off, then perhaps the weight of the fabric inside pulled the bag down & the attacker was left holding a ripped-off bit of black plastic.

Otherwise, why on earth would anybody think to rip it off?

I seem to recall the bin liner had some sort of cushion inside so it was comfortable for her to sit on. Mr B had an obsession with strips of plastic, when he was apprehended soon after he had strips in his pockets.

That would be reason to rip some off the bin liner (if it was him).

You've got to line up very circumstantial evidence against SJ against a local man with a plastic fetish and the fact there was part of a bin liner shoved very high up into her nose. It was put in forcefully.

I think that warranted more investigation tbh.

I think MrB WAS investigated and ruled out

Yes but how thoroughly was he investigated? They decided it was SJ within 24 hours. I'd like to know what exactly ruled Mr B out so quickly.

I haven't seen this programme but believe it to have been Levi Bellfield who killed her.

If it was Bellfield that's another bloody crime in itself, considering how many more he went on to kill and his MO did differ. I firmly believe he killed the Russell's too.

I think so. It was obvious to West London locals that a serial attacker was targeting young women long before the police connected the attacks together. He wasn't prosecuted for everything.

I have always thought that if he killed her in 3 minutes, drove off and around to create an alibi, came back to the house when he was ready, expecting to see her dead or dying ... he'd have made a much much better job of the 999 call. People seem to think that because he was calm (voice) and vague to nonsensical in what he said, he was playing a part. But surely you'd play the part of a panicked man, and pretend you'd checked her breathing if you hadn't, and emphasise your shock and horror. He would have known that call would matter.

Where were the other 4 daughters?

1 was at a clarinet lesson?
1 in the car?
2 with their mum?

Is they correct? Was this proven? Did any shower or change their clothes?

Yeah that's the gist of where the kids were. No showering or changing of clothes. In fact the police made a huge deal of the fact that when they all returned from giving statements later that night and went back to a friend's house, SJ didn't want to take his fleece off. Apparently this was highly unusual but I'm not sure why.

It was a fleece jacket, it wasn't like he was refusing to take off a huge winter coat. Also the blood specks were in tact, no effort was made to remove them (they'd have been invisible to the naked eye but he's not at any point wiped himself down or anything).

It was just cobbled together evidence of...not very much when you think about it. Nor do the forensics work. Experiments were done to see if she had the lung capacity to have exhaled at all given the fact her head injuries would have been shutting down all basic functions. It was found to be totally possible.

I would have thought Bellfield would have admitted to it by now had he done it. He would enjoy the notoriety.
Someone, somewhere knows what happened to that poor little girl. I hope the truth comes out one day.

Bellfield plays games. He would only reveal what happened to Milly Dowler if he could tell a young, blonde policewoman.

He would enjoy watching this play out while a possibly innocent man is still having to protest his innocence. He admits to Megan and Lin Russell. Then he retracts. Then admits it again and so on.

There is no reason to admit to it from his point of of view.