Who killed Billie-Jo?

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Did anyone watch this?

I remember this awful event. The documentary last night was very interesting.

I have read Sion Jenkins's book so suppose I can't claim an unbiased perspective

As he’s been proven to be a liar and abusive to his wife and children I wouldn’t believe a word this man has said.

@Hellocatshome - I wonder that too, and think this may be the reason he took his child with him when he left to pickup from the clarinet lesson. Because that in itself was an odd thing to do.

Guilty as sin IMHO. Redhanded podcast did a good episode on this case.

@LizzieSiddal

I have read Sion Jenkins's book so suppose I can't claim an unbiased perspective

As he’s been proven to be a liar and abusive to his wife and children I wouldn’t believe a word this man has said.

He's been proven to be a liar (false claims on CV) but not to have been abusive. The book didn't leave me thinking he was a saint or anything - just explained which evidence was released when and what different scientific claims were made about the evidence.

So it explained why two retrials didn't convict (though also didn't find him innocent). The major claims seemed verifiable and I haven't seen them contested anywhere since it was published. Was surprised there was nothing new in the documentary.

The book's quite cleverly constructed so that he never gives his own account of the day and only confronts some media allegations quite narrowly. So he doesn't deny or confirm hitting his children, doesn't claim to have perfect recall of the day - he just makes it quite clear why the science and original witness statements couldn't make a plausible case for his guilt. And I do find it absolutely possible that the police latched on to his case and wouldn't reconsider it - hardly the only time that's happened.

@Hellocatshome

Is there a reason why he couldn't have done it earlier in the morning before they left to pick the other daughter up?

Eldest daughter said initially and reiterated at the appeal that Billie-Jo was alive when they left to collect her sister from music lesson, and probable time of death makes later attack more likely (though that's not a certain science, apparently).

He 100% in my mind attacked her when putting the bucket back because she was stroppy and had an attitude about not getting taking for her shoes, he regularly lost his temper according to the wife, I think she was purposely messing up the painting he saw when he was putting the bucket down and they argued she said something that triggered him and in a flash he hit her with the tent peg.
It's odd he circled the house in the car, went past a DIY store to a further out one for white spirit he didn't need, said he never entered the house repeatedly lied about where I. The house he went until eventually he was inside the house alone with Billie Jo.
It was determined the man with MH issues could never of committed the crime based on his distance from the house and confirmed sightings by multiple people.
His daughter thought he did it.
The investigation was fumbled based on a bubble of blood, He was a known liar and abusive why people think he didn't do it I'll never know.

Did Sion Jenkins know about the man with the plastic obsession to have been able to fake that it was him with the plastic up her nose?

@ApricotPeony

Did Sion Jenkins know about the man with the plastic obsession to have been able to fake that it was him with the plastic up her nose?

No. I don't think anyone knew about the plastic obsession at the time of the original trial - it was from then unseen notes from police custody. So he can't have known this - and if somehow had known, would presumably have brought it up at that first trial.

His daughter was told there was independent scientific evidence he had done it. Later, she agreed to be a witness for the defence at appeal, said that she hadn't known what to think after police told her he was guilty - she was about ten at the time - but still denied any memory of claiming to believe he'd done it. That had been an undated second hand report from her mother.

Her evidence on that issue is in newspaper reports of court proceedings as well as in his book. It's the new evidence produced at each stage from conviction to appeal to retrial that I found convincing - and after all appeals and retrials only happen with substantial new evidence.

I've just finished watching this and as much as I dislike Sion Jenkins, I just can't see how he would have killed Billie-Jo.

If it wasn't a premeditated crime, then somehow he enters the house, finds a weapon, bludgeons her to death - brutally - blood everywhere - yet gets less than one whole spot of blood on him (apparently the micro spots when put together still equal less than a spot of blood if you'd cut your finger or similar) all in a three minute window? And he then returns to the car, not out of breath, not red in the face, not shaking, and perfectly calm and normal?

Looking at the crime scene there was blood everywhere - all over the French doors, all over the patio, yet it goes nowhere near the attacker? I just can't see that that would be possible.

And the plastic stuck up her nose - if Sion killed her in a violent rage, why then stick random plastic up her nostril at the end of the attack? He wouldn't have been aware of the plastic obsession of Mr B.

Sion Jenkins does certainly appear to be a narcissistic prick, but I can't see that he killed poor Billie-Jo.

Have just watched this this evening and perfectly put @dappledolivegroves . I always thought it was Sion but why the plastic and why not more blood on his clothes?

A proven liar and domestic abuser with a temper goes on a pointless trip to a DIY shop, and in those few minutes, an unknown person arrives, finds a tent peg and murders Billie-Jo? The man, who an independent witness has seen commit violence towards Billie-Jo, then fails to follow the instructions from 999 to move her into the recovery position and try to resuscitate her. I know what I believe.

@DappledOliveGroves

I've just finished watching this and as much as I dislike Sion Jenkins, I just can't see how he would have killed Billie-Jo.

If it wasn't a premeditated crime, then somehow he enters the house, finds a weapon, bludgeons her to death - brutally - blood everywhere - yet gets less than one whole spot of blood on him (apparently the micro spots when put together still equal less than a spot of blood if you'd cut your finger or similar) all in a three minute window? And he then returns to the car, not out of breath, not red in the face, not shaking, and perfectly calm and normal?

Looking at the crime scene there was blood everywhere - all over the French doors, all over the patio, yet it goes nowhere near the attacker? I just can't see that that would be possible.

And the plastic stuck up her nose - if Sion killed her in a violent rage, why then stick random plastic up her nostril at the end of the attack? He wouldn't have been aware of the plastic obsession of Mr B.

Sion Jenkins does certainly appear to be a narcissistic prick, but I can't see that he killed poor Billie-Jo.

Yes I agree with all of this

I think he did it but I'm not sure how he managed it in the timeframe

And the plastic

The piece of black plastic bin liner that the neighbour found rammed up the poor girls nose was massively significant in my thinking. Where did it come from ? did it come from the bag that Sion Jenkins gave to Billie-Jo earlier in the day ? If it was a remnant of that bag did the remnant match the hole in the recovered bin liner to fully form the bag again ? or was a further piece missing? Was the plastic recovered from the suspect in custody Mr B who when searched was found to be chewing a piece of plastic? Apparently he had retrieved it from an orifice on his body , was it his " Trophy " and was he destroying evidence? So many questions.

I didn't see this but I know one of the prison guards who had him in his wing.
He said Sion Jenkins was an evil, arrogant bastard. He also had Ian Huntley on his watch and many other lifers. Sion is the only one who he spoke about in such a definitive manner.

Also in an attack like that, it would have been expected that Jenkins would have blood on his back but there was none

The expert explained why there was unlikely to be due to the shape of the murder weapon.

@Gardeningcreature

I didn't see this but I know one of the prison guards who had him in his wing. He said Sion Jenkins was an evil, arrogant bastard. He also had Ian Huntley on his watch and many other lifers. Sion is the only one who he spoke about in such a definitive manner.

He may have been - not sure I wouldn't be myself I I'd been locked up and was innocent. He does come across as very "teacherly" - tone can be pedantic and maybe patronising. He's reported routine bullying, harassment, violence amongst prison guards in his book. I doubt he's their favourite person.

But there seem to be two ways of approaching the case here:
Do I believe from what I've gleaned of his character that this man could be a murderer?
Or, is there evidence he committed this murder?

You need the evidence, and there isn't any.

I do think though that being relatively wealthy, well connected and middle class helped him. And a sort of public school handsome white man privilege. Like he's out on bail, has two dates with a millionaire, marries her, and she suggests a star witness.

That sort of thing must have been infuriating if you were involved in the case and thought he'd done it. But the flipside is - if he'd been alone with Billie-Jo that afternoon; if he hadn't had an effective support network- he'd probably still be in jail. But with no reliable evidence, just no way to disprove involvement.

That doesn't say to me that he got away with murder. It says there are probably a lot of innocent people locked up. He had enough privilege to buck that system. He's hated for that too, but it doesn't make him a murderer.

I'm not certain that he did it, so better out than in I guess - but my personal opinion is that his conviction was safer than that of Michael Stone. From memory, the murders happened within a year of each other and it's weird to me that Stone is still in prison 25 years later while smirking narcissist and inadequate bully-boy Jenkins, is a free man.

Tbh I’m amazed they’re even allowed to make these kinds of documentaries given he was acquitted of the murder. Isn’t that then defamation or whatever given he’s now been found innocent?

TBH I’m not convinced he did it either, that doesn’t mean I don’t think he’s a nasty piece of work though.

interestingly Levi Bellfield has just confessed to those murders and Michael Stone has always maintained his innocence Bellfield has since said that he didn’t. Clearly it was just another ploy for attention. And the media love giving it to him.

Did they definitely collect the correct clothes? Could he have murdered her in 1 set, disposed of them, got changed, ‘found’/checked her body in another set?

Did the blood bubble from her nose cause blood to spray on him, he then covers (same or opposite) nostril with nearby bag to prevent any further blood?,

Or, he may have known about Mr B’s fetish and copied/framed. It was proven beyond doubt that Mr B could not have killer her.

@AlternativePerspective

Tbh I’m amazed they’re even allowed to make these kinds of documentaries given he was acquitted of the murder. Isn’t that then defamation or whatever given he’s now been found innocent?

TBH I’m not convinced he did it either, that doesn’t mean I don’t think he’s a nasty piece of work though.

He wasn't 'found innocent' - if it comes right down to it, people are never 'found innocent', and Jenkins is a particularly peculiar example because he wasn't ever acquitted by a jury. He was found guilty in his first trial, and eventually acquitted because the jury twice couldn't reach a verdict in subsequent retrials. Not very satisfactory, but enough to keep him out of prison.

I think if you are capable of smashing your daughter's head in it's not so beyond the realms of possibility you could shove something up her nose too in a fit of absolute blind rage. The man with his plastic obsession might just be a red herringbone.

Poor child

@AlternativePerspective not surprised that's the case about Bellfield. I hope he is vilified by the other prisoners tbh.