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This is Going to Hurt - starts 8th Feb

666 replies

ouch321 · 30/01/2022 17:37

I loved the book of this by Adam Kay. I know others weren't so keen.
BBC has dramatised this and starts in early Feb. Just a heads up for others who liked the book.

OP posts:
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6
ISmellBurnings · 09/02/2022 08:51

I thought it was funny, I’ve read the book and seen him live years ago. Doctors did use to work ridiculous, unsafe hours with little sleep. It’s no wonder incidents happened.

pinkgingham · 09/02/2022 08:53

I’ve been debating whether to read/watch this but I don’t think I will bother after reading his thread.

If It was set in an ICU everyone would be in uproar but because it’s women in labour, it’s apparently ok?

My own experience of NHS care (two babies) was that it was uncaring and often misogynistic. Adam sounds very similar to some of the doctors I met there. It’s not acceptable and not at all funny, in my view.

pinkgingham · 09/02/2022 08:58

and his aside to the junior doctor, no dont Show them the forceps!
i was so grateful i didnt see a forceps until after the event.

I accept we clearly have different views on this so it’s probably impossible to please everyone! But personally I find this approach of not fully informing women about childbirth and what it can involve really paternalistic and patronising. I didn’t have forceps in the end but did see them in an antenatal class. Maybe not everyone wants to know everything but give women the choice.

malificent7 · 09/02/2022 08:59

I thought the treatment of the student was very accurate ( speaking from experience!)

toomuchlaundry · 09/02/2022 09:12

@pinkgingham I had to have a procedure after giving birth to DS and the consultant was telling me what he was going to do. I was pretty traumatised and just wanted him to do whatever he needed to do to keep me alive. I didn’t want to know the details as that traumatised me even more. I wouldn’t have wanted to see the forceps either. Although I did keep my eyes shut through most of my labour so hopefully wouldn’t have seen them anyway if they had been needed

Mothermorph · 09/02/2022 09:13

We would do better to remember the great number of women and babies saved by sometimes really brutal seeming medical intervention.

DH was watching and (despite having 2 children of our own) was aghast at how brutal the c-section was. I've seen forceps deliveries before and think they seem quite horrific.(I was lucky to have 2 straightforward births)

CaptainMyCaptain · 09/02/2022 10:26

@lljkk

I challenge anyone to quote any part of the book where AK gave pronoun to his partner.

Claiming he pretended the partner in the book was female sounds like a weak attempt to slur AK.

AK never once gave a pronoun to his partner in the book -- he even mentions how careful he was not to do that in other interviews. It wasn't important or anyone's business, anyway, just as he never spelled out partner's full name or explained their occupation or background.

When I read the book I knew he was gay but my husband assumed his partner was female. Maybe I was reading between the lines (correctly).
CaptainMyCaptain · 09/02/2022 10:32

[quote Kendodd]**@fratellia

Hopefully training is trauma-informed, particularly if drs are working in maternity units. 1 in 3 women traumatised from childbirth some go on to have full-blown ptsd.

I partly blame this on places like NCT etc. Pregnant women are sold a lie, that childbirth is an easy natural process of birth pools and a soundtrack. We are made to feel like failures (even inadvertantly) if we need pain relief or things go wrong. We would do better to remember the great number of women and babies saved by sometimes really brutal seeming medical intervention.[/quote]
I agree. In the past many women died in childbirth and it was seen as a very dangerous time which could go either way.

Before people label him as callous and uncaring wait until it gets to where he realises he can't do the job anymore. It's not because he doesn't care.

airbalonz · 09/02/2022 10:39

A lot of statistics from birth trauma charities show that many women felt trauma was caused by staff and how respectful or dignified treatment was than how the actual birth went. Often it’s a higher statistic than trauma simply from having interventions. Clearly it makes a big difference- 2 identical on paper births can be vastly different experiences if a woman is treated with respect and dignity.

It’s a shame if training isn’t always trauma-informed, like the statistic about what percentage of women on a mat ward will have always experienced sexual abuse in the past. If someone like Adam Kay, from his white male private school bubble, isn’t actively taught about this does he have any idea how potentially sensitive and traumatic something like a vaginal exam can be? Or that he’s statistically working with patients who have some form of sexual assault in their past every single shift?

PoleFairy · 09/02/2022 10:53

I thought it was pretty accurate. I was born 30 years ago (this month actually) via an emergency c section. The doctor on call who delivered me was asleep down the hall. He was paged and my mum remembers him running down the corridor after her bed being wheeled down the hall. He had scrubs on top but not on the bottom half. They put her to sleep and I was delivered. There was less than 9 minutes between him being asleep and him performing an emergency c section in theatre and resuscitating me.

Whitney168 · 09/02/2022 11:11

I watched it and not having read the books or known much about them, the thing that came through most was the workload and hours of not only the main character but the trainee as well. It's actually frightening when they're making literally life and death decisions.

I disliked most of the book, but was stuck for something to watch last night so gave this a go and liked it much more than the book - mostly, I think, through Ben Wishaw's excellent portrayal of just how inhuman the hours are and how totally exhausted he was, which is not going to let anyone be their 'best self'!

The older doctor saved both and then told him to change the notes i.e. cover-up/close ranks (which I suspect happens in all branches of medicine all the time).

I don't directly remember this from the book, but in the programme last night this came across more to me as the senior role taking responsibility, rather than throwing the exhausted junior to the wolves?

PoleFairy · 09/02/2022 11:34

@Whitney168

I watched it and not having read the books or known much about them, the thing that came through most was the workload and hours of not only the main character but the trainee as well. It's actually frightening when they're making literally life and death decisions.

I disliked most of the book, but was stuck for something to watch last night so gave this a go and liked it much more than the book - mostly, I think, through Ben Wishaw's excellent portrayal of just how inhuman the hours are and how totally exhausted he was, which is not going to let anyone be their 'best self'!

The older doctor saved both and then told him to change the notes i.e. cover-up/close ranks (which I suspect happens in all branches of medicine all the time).

I don't directly remember this from the book, but in the programme last night this came across more to me as the senior role taking responsibility, rather than throwing the exhausted junior to the wolves?

This is what I got too. The senior role has recognised that HE made the mistake by asking the junior to work 2 back to back 12 hour shifts and insisting he send people home to clear beds meaning he missed the pre eclampsia
sleepyhoglet · 09/02/2022 11:50

Bloody hell- glad I gave birth BEFORE watching this

Ilovetea33 · 09/02/2022 14:34

I've seen the first episode now and while I didn't find it particularly objectionable, I don't feel compelled to watch any more. I would if I found Ben Wishaw more charismatic, but I don't, so I'll call it a day.

triballeader · 09/02/2022 15:03

The preterm em c/sec - thank God the BBC showed the possible reality. I could have cheered. I can know simply say 'You saw episode one- THAT is why I keep quiet as that is what my preterm em c/section was like'.

Spent time on the antenatal ward threatening preterm delivery when son, who was a transerse lie, decided to up the sheer choas by sticking one foot down. The on-call Dr did say if things got any worse she would tip me out of the sixth floor window as that would be the fastest way they had to get me into theatre. I then had an APH and I really did not care that she was soaked in my blood as she held son in on route through the hospital to theatre.

Surgeon looked relieved as off-duty snr consultant raced into theatre and saw the situation and said 'Oh !@#!' They worked like a fury to get son out and thrown [not literaly but very very fast] to the waiting neonatalogist and team to take as I then had a life threatening PPH. He shouted to throw my @! husband out and went very white then very quiet as they knocked me out. After I woke in theatre to the surreal image of two surgeons scooping up blood and putting it into a measuring jug to try and work out how how many extra units I would need.

Brutal medical intervention - with no time for bedside nicities - but it saved both our lives that day.

EsmaCannonball · 09/02/2022 15:10

I hadn't heard of Adam Kay before (although I did work with someone who went through a phase of constantly playing that sneering sexist, working-class hating band he is a part of). I said upthread that I found the main character's constant pithy comments a bit grating, and now that I know Kay wrote this himself and the protagonist is based on him it just makes it worse. 'Hey, I admit I was often a flawed and inept doctor but just look at how unfailingly witty and clever and self- aware I am.' It's always a mistake for a writer to give themselves the best lines.

There's a tendency for the media, and society in general, to confer sainthood on doctors and nurses, and I think Bodies did a better job of debunking that myth. (Although Jed Mercurio also has problems with depicting women, the working-class and fat people in his dramas.) We're always told that there is something so peculiarly traumatic about being a medical professional that dark humour is essential to getting through the day, but does something about that humour bleed into, or reveal attitudes towards, patients and actually contribute to the patients' bad experiences and poor outcomes? It's widely accepted that there's something rotten at the heart of police culture which is leading to massive institutional failings, so is it hard to accept that medical failings aren't just a matter of cuts and resources but are also down to a poor attitude towards patients? It's worrying that this guy is seen as being representative of doctors. Would any other profession always get away with, 'You have to be a part of our exclusive club to understand why we need to talk about people like they are scum'?

I'll also add that, although I hate cancel culture, it's very interesting who gets cancelled and who doesn't, isn't it? It's all completely partisan and you can be as vile and demeaning as you like as long as you are on the right side.

GruffaloSolja · 09/02/2022 15:16

I've just finished watching episode 6 and my impression so far is that we're not supposed to really like Adam. I think we're supposed to find him arrogant and a bit of a bell end. He's definitely not portrayed as a hero. He seems to be hanging on by his finger tips. He doesn't even have any real friends to invite to his own engagement party. The hospital seemed to be very understaffed. And junior doctors just seem to be thrown in at deep end and expected to get on it with it. Poor, Shruti she was so isolated from everyone, living in a bare soulless flat. She was saving people's lives but still thought she was a failure.

WheresThatCatGoneNow · 09/02/2022 15:31

I knew Adam was gay anyway - even before I read his book several years ago.

Which I enjoyed!

I didn't think it was mysoginistic at all.

EatSleepRantRepeat · 09/02/2022 15:43

This is what I got too. The senior role has recognised that HE made the mistake by asking the junior to work 2 back to back 12 hour shifts and insisting he send people home to clear beds meaning he missed the pre eclampsia

Doesn't matter - they're still lying and treating the birth mother like they're stupid. A friend is going through a personal injury claim for her child who was left brain damaged by the NHS, there is an enormous catalogue of mistakes and overall neglect of care involved. They have tried to cover these up so much that it's taken a year of stress and legal action just to get a report - there are no heroics in lying to patients about what happened, it's shameful. Even the lying to the racist woman about who was operating on her was wrong - her reasons were unacceptable but what he did invalidates her consent. How would people feel if someone asked a female doctor to do an intimate procedure behind a curtain and it turned out to be a bloke?

EatSleepRantRepeat · 09/02/2022 15:47

We're always told that there is something so peculiarly traumatic about being a medical professional that dark humour is essential to getting through the day, but does something about that humour bleed into, or reveal attitudes towards, patients and actually contribute to the patients' bad experiences and poor outcomes? It's widely accepted that there's something rotten at the heart of police culture which is leading to massive institutional failings, so is it hard to accept that medical failings aren't just a matter of cuts and resources but are also down to a poor attitude towards patients? It's worrying that this guy is seen as being representative of doctors. Would any other profession always get away with, 'You have to be a part of our exclusive club to understand why we need to talk about people like they are scum'

This is spot on @EsmaCannonball

Riverrushing21 · 09/02/2022 15:53

I have to say, I didn’t like the first episode (he seemed very flippant towards the patients), but I carried on watching because I liked the book.

The show is getting better as it goes on. Adam definitely isn’t being portrayed as a hero in the eyes of his colleagues or patients, but I do think you also get the impression that deep down he does care about the mothers and babies. I also got this impression from the book. If I remember rightly, one of the reasons he left the profession was because he didn’t feel like he or the NHS could do the patients justice or give the care they all deserve.

CaptainMyCaptain · 09/02/2022 16:19

He also felt he wasn't strong enough to cope with the job following a particularly harrowing incident.

PugInTheHouse · 09/02/2022 16:41

I'm an idiot, I watched episode 1 last night and thought the next one wasn't on for a week, I had nothing else to watch either Grin

Lordamighty · 09/02/2022 17:48

@Riverrushing21

I have to say, I didn’t like the first episode (he seemed very flippant towards the patients), but I carried on watching because I liked the book.

The show is getting better as it goes on. Adam definitely isn’t being portrayed as a hero in the eyes of his colleagues or patients, but I do think you also get the impression that deep down he does care about the mothers and babies. I also got this impression from the book. If I remember rightly, one of the reasons he left the profession was because he didn’t feel like he or the NHS could do the patients justice or give the care they all deserve.

Well thank fuck for that, the NHS definitely doesn’t need misogynistic pricks like him, especially in the maternity dept., or brats & twats as he refers to it.
sleepyhoglet · 09/02/2022 18:25

Can anyone medical explain why the scrubs come from vending machines?