This is Going to Hurt - starts 8th Feb

[ouch321]

I loved the book of this by Adam Kay. I know others weren't so keen.
BBC has dramatised this and starts in early Feb. Just a heads up for others who liked the book.

Have to agree to disagree about whether we are meant to be laughing silver. If you don’t think there is any element of humour or ridicule of the women then I agree that does affect the position on misogyny, but I perceive the tone of the show differently to you.

Credit where credit is due - although I still maintain the TV show bears VERY little resemblance to the book and Ben Whishaw’s Adam is nothing like awful twat Adam IRL - they gave us some cracking female characters! Tracy (the non nervous one!), Shruti and the female consultant whose name I’ve forgotten. All outstanding performances. I love that every one of them called out Adam and his BS, and on occasion called out sexism. Not something that was AT ALL reflected in the book!

Hope that engagement story wasn’t true

I thought the humour was directed at the NHS, working in health, and very general. I can't think of a single joke at a woman's expense in the TV show. I don't think it was a comedy- it was utterly tragic. And much better than I expected.

[quote CorneliusVetch]@treeflowercat

But this is a comedy. The comparison would be if there was an 18th century programme in which a character owned slaves and these slaves were the butt of jokes and subject of disparaging remarks.

I don’t think this means TIGTH shouldn’t have been made by the way, but I think women have the right to feel upset at the way it mocks women.[/quote]
The fact that it contains dark/gallows humour in places doesn't make it a "comedy". The humour is all part of the portrayal of the NHS culture in general and Adam Kay in particular, to remove it would be to remove an important dimension. It's very common for professions that deal with trauma on a regular basis (eg military) to use humour as coping mechanism to distance themselves from the emotional stress of the situation, otherwise they'd literally go mad. I can see why it all might be too raw for someone who had a traumatic birth experience, but that doesn't make the drama misogynistic.

I loved it. The wonderfully flawed characters are perfectly acted. It is fun, tragic and seriously raw. + the soundtrack is equally brilliant. Seeing misogyny is in my opinion seriously missing the point. It is a portrayal of overworked and overwhelmed people, coping the very best they can (foregoing empathy in the process and becoming snappy as a frustration outlet). Mistakes are too huge to make despite being ill equipped to be brilliant. That’s the point and it’s well made. I liked the book but I think the show is phenomenal.

The song about an abusive relationship in the background is clearly not about promoting DV, but about the way Adam is in an abusive relationship with the job.

@CorneliusVetch

Have to agree to disagree about whether we are meant to be laughing silver. If you don’t think there is any element of humour or ridicule of the women then I agree that does affect the position on misogyny, but I perceive the tone of the show differently to you.

Pretty much all humour is making witty light-hearted observations about things that are, fundamentally, serious matters.... I can understand why some people will find some humour distasteful or are too personally impacted to find humour funny, but if we always said "you can't make a joke about X, because X isn't really a laughing matter", we'd pretty much have to outlaw most comedy and humour

Credit where credit is due - although I still maintain the TV show bears VERY little resemblance to the book and Ben Whishaw’s Adam is nothing like awful twat Adam IRL - they gave us some cracking female characters! Tracy (the non nervous one!), Shruti and the female consultant whose name I’ve forgotten. All outstanding performances. I love that every one of them called out Adam and his BS, and on occasion called out sexism. Not something that was AT ALL reflected in the book!

Who is they?
You do realise that Adam Kay wrote the script? He devised the new characters and effectively called himself out.

I think the BBC made an error in pitching it as comedy and the intro last night definitely was more balanced. Second episode was far less funny at the expense of "women" , more situational and character based. He's still very unlikeable though, especially towards Shruti and her misplaced loyalty. Sadly I suspect the kinder egg engagement was real.

@BadHairDayExpert ‘they’ is (obviously) the female characters. And whilst Adam Kay wrote the script he would t have done it in isolation, it’s not his little ego trip to make himself look amazing. As I’ve said the book Adam is completely different from TV show Adam and I do wonder why that is…actually I don’t, it’s because if they portrayed him the way the book did it wouldn’t make as much of a TV show.

I think it is wrongly portrayed as a comedy. DH and I both worked in the NHS since the mid 70s. In the 80s and 90s it really was like that. Grim. In many ways it has improved, but there are still some awful issues, just different ones.

Whether it's a comedy or not, it was definitely marketed as one, and black humour was used from the off in Episode 1 - for example the reference to wearing the woman on the trolley like a glove puppet, while Shruti tried to manhandle a trolley on her own through the double doors to the ward. It's the stereotypical male author approach - even in a distinctly female setting, make the male character a hero/antihero while giving very little character development to the women, who are mainly there as props or devices to move the story along.

Surely no-one is surprised that this thread has turned into a discussion about misogyny, given mumsnet is full of the women with experiences that are treated so dismissively in his writing? If he wanted this to be a hard-hitting drama about healthcare cuts etc, he only needs to look at the one with Jodie Comer about Covid which was amazing.

[quote ButtercupOfFlorin]@BadHairDayExpert ‘they’ is (obviously) the female characters. And whilst Adam Kay wrote the script he would t have done it in isolation, it’s not his little ego trip to make himself look amazing. As I’ve said the book Adam is completely different from TV show Adam and I do wonder why that is…actually I don’t, it’s because if they portrayed him the way the book did it wouldn’t make as much of a TV show.[/quote]
How can "they" be the female characters in this sentence: "Credit where credit is due - although I still maintain the TV show bears VERY little resemblance to the book and Ben Whishaw’s Adam is nothing like awful twat Adam IRL - they gave us some cracking female characters!"

The female characters gave us some cracking female characters? Did you meant the actors? The writers?

I wouldn't normally be so picky but since your post is a bit patronising "(obviously)"...

@SilverGlassHare don’t be a dick. You know what I meant.

No, actually, I don't. You were quite dismissive of @BadHairDayExpert's request for clarification and it's still not clear what you meant. Who are "they"? Adam Kay created those characters, which you seem keen to avoid acknowledging.

sadiemitchellauthor.wordpress.com/2022/02/11/that-was-painful/

This article by a midwife points out how cruel it was to terrify women just for good TV and to show what a "hero" Kay is (she describes the shoulder dystocia scene, so you may want to avoid reading it).

@StellaAndCrow

sadiemitchellauthor.wordpress.com/2022/02/11/that-was-painful/

This article by a midwife points out how cruel it was to terrify women just for good TV and to show what a "hero" Kay is (she describes the shoulder dystocia scene, so you may want to avoid reading it).

He mentioned 5 minutes because the foundation doctor or student- whoever it was left it for a long time before buzzing; it was to highlight I presume that on top of a savage workload it's dealing with the consequences of having inexperienced people plugging the gaps in care as they're so short.

I hated the book, didn't mind the series too much- highlighted nicely the issues with working within and relieving care from a crumbling health service that is in no way, shape or form fit for purpose. Aside from the midwife that kept passing the buck for decisions up the chain (most of us will have worked with someone similar I'm sure), he seemed to develop a lot of respect for the other midwife. I think he's horrible and was so unsuited for the job, but I don't think people are watching it to gather facts about birth, and the reality is scary at the moment and its good people know the challenges because they might push for change.

I did my midwifery training in the late 70s and worked through the 80s. Many of those doctors were not bad people, they were just so exhausted and sleep deprived they were dangerous. As midwives we did try to support them as best we could. At least in those days we did have a better level of midwifery and nursing staffing. I worked with a consultant exactly like the one in the programme. He might have been modelled on him they are so alike.

@StellaAndCrow

sadiemitchellauthor.wordpress.com/2022/02/11/that-was-painful/

This article by a midwife points out how cruel it was to terrify women just for good TV and to show what a "hero" Kay is (she describes the shoulder dystocia scene, so you may want to avoid reading it).

But cosy Sunday night "Call the Midwife" has shown just about every awful thing that can go wrong with pregnancy/childbirth and no one bats an eyelid.

Haven't read the book but I'm loving the series.

Not often I feel so emotionally moved by a TV drama. Just watched episode 6.

@StellaAndCrow

sadiemitchellauthor.wordpress.com/2022/02/11/that-was-painful/

This article by a midwife points out how cruel it was to terrify women just for good TV and to show what a "hero" Kay is (she describes the shoulder dystocia scene, so you may want to avoid reading it).

I have often found midwives quite dismissive of the very real and scary risks of pregnancy and birth so I'm not surprised to see an article like this. All of this positive birth rhetoric is leading to loads of traumatised women who genuinely thought if they just believe they can do it without intervention, their birth would go really well, and medicalised births only happen to other people. Shoulder dystocia happens, haemorrhaging happens and severe pre eclampsia happens, and we would all do a lot better if we were a bit better prepared for the fact that it might happen to us, in my opinion.

@Mooserp I was the same , floored me that episode

@Mooserp

Not often I feel so emotionally moved by a TV drama. Just watched episode 6.

Same. I keep thinking about it, I feel like I need to watch it all again to process my thoughts about it.

Episode 6 & 7 so different to the rest.
I liked the book & hated the TV show until near the end.
It's scary to think it was years ago and I imagine things are even worse now.