The Puppet Master, Netflix

[bonfireheart]

Really need to talk to someone about this! :)

@longwayoff

Further note that at least one of his victims has 2 children by him and their privacy needs protection. Unfortunately this helps the utter bastard to keep himself out of reach. What we need is a documentary devoted to clearly explaining coercive control, how easy it is for people to surrender their autonomy in the belief that its their decision and why we allow this to happen to us. Anyone can meet a conman and be seduced. We need to educate ourselves to recognise this possibility instead of just expressing sympathy or contempt for 'letting this happen' to us.

@longwayoff well said 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Sarah’s dad is awesome.

I’d like to see a psychologist involved with the programme, to try and make sense of the behaviours of all the people involved. Also agree that knowing about his background and motivations would have be interesting, as well as knowing how he singled out his victims.

I haven’t seen anyone on here who’s said “He told me he was a spy and I knew it was absolute nonsense”… but surely he tried this with at least a few people who didn’t believe him? Or did he test them in another way first, to see how likely they would be to believe his fibs?

It reminds me of Dirty John although that was a much more 'obvious' con rather than the MI5 con.

Of course he's tried 'I'm a spy' on countless occasions, we've all met 'I'm ex special forces/in SAS etc' tossers and most of us raise an eyebrow and dismiss them with a 'nice try, no thanks chum'. So you're unlikely to hear from any of them. Guys like that abound. Sadly, some of them find somebody who buys the lot.

The posters saying "how can those people and their families be so gullible" remind me of people who say "women should leave the first time their partner hits them".

If only abuse and control were that simple.

I don't think it was difficult to see how he conned the students, young people away from home, sheltered farming backgrounds and set with the IRA background at the time and the involvement of the college.

It would have been interesting to find out more about him, apart from he was a great car salesman. It seems really likely that he is still conning people and getting better at it.

Breeding and selling Beagles is he not? Which is quite a small world so people will know them. He's not a wanted man. She's not a missing person. He's got enough front to be searching through the programme forensically looking for reasons to sue for damaging his 'good name'.

Looks like there is also going to be a film about Freegard staring James Norton.

I am watching this, but haven't yet finished.
This won't be a popular view, but the stupidity of some people genuinely has me in despair.
Yes, he's a cruel bastard. But a mother leaving her kids to be with this guy?? Holy shit.

It's not a popular view, I hope, as its extremely narrow and short-sighted. If you read up on the psychodynamics of coercion and brainwashing you will understand it better. It's not about being stupid. A mother has left her children. What could make her do that? You wouldn't leave yours. I expect she would have said the same before she met him, yet she did. Something far more complex than stupidity at play.

It's not a popular view as it lacks empathy and any basic understanding of coercive control, grooming and vulnerabilities. It is the view of someone who blames victims rather than having the ability to look at the bigger picture and try to understand how this might have happened.

What did people think about renata? I wonder how she was paying Sarah and how many questions she asked about her .

I appreciate that Renata was also a victim to him but it seemed like Sarah was being used as a modern day slave

I’ve just watched this last night, omg fuming he’s still out there doing it to others. Disgusting!

@JeSuisLeLoup I think Renata was housing Sarah rent free so I thought maybe being cleaner was her payment for housing her

I watched all 3 episodes last night and was fascinated and disgusted by him at the same time.

So heartbreaking for Sandra's children to have lost their beloved mother, knowing the damage he has done to their family and many others.

I thought Sarah's father was an absolute hero, literally piecing every single clue and going to the ends of the earth to save his child from that despicable creature.

Coercive control has very little to do with people just being stupid and gullible enough to believe lies from an abuser. Why else do some people find it so hard to leave abusive relationships? We can discuss trauma bonding, the cycle of abuse, idealise, devalue, discard etc but that's another thread.

The only person who deserves to be judged is the perpetrator.

@mycatisannoying

I am watching this, but haven't yet finished. This won't be a popular view, but the stupidity of some people genuinely has me in despair. Yes, he's a cruel bastard. But a mother leaving her kids to be with this guy?? Holy shit.

I was afraid to post my true feelings on this for fear of being branded a victim blamer and I understand what is easy for me is hard for someone else and vice versa but f*cking hell I don't think I will ever be able to understand this, ever. I'm sympathetic, but I'll never get it.

I’ve just watched this and came to look for a thread about it straight away!

I’m sorry but Sarah??? Even the guy (I think his name is John) that just believed he was MI5 and lied to the girls to get them in the car. How gullible can you be. That whole situation was so ridiculous, I honestly couldn’t believe what I was hearing. I feel so bad for all the other victims including Sharon’s family but I couldn’t believe the college/uni kids

I think the timing of the Uk IRA attacks, the involvement of the college in possible gun running and that the students were young and naïve. He must have researched some of their family details and this was all pre internet.

He only got caught coz of Sarah’s dad. All those phone calls he made to the police.

I remember working on a factory ages ago. I had to stand opposite this guy who told me he was a soldier or something. He told a story about being called up from his home once by the military and having to drive in his pants and flip flops to the nearest base. He was needed so quickly that he didn’t even have a chance to get changed. He also had the police with their blue lights on leading the way so that he could get there quickly. I couldn’t believe he was yelling such obvious lies. While also working in a yoghurt factory, which is not where you’d expect a soldier to end up. He was young. 20s. I just thought he was a twat but I sometimes wonder if he’s still telling lies to people.

Is Sarah's mum still alive.? Not much was said about her. Her dad was just amazing.

I don't know why threads like this always turn to some men faking they are in the regular forces. Some men are SAS / private security.

Well, it raises suspicion if one of the first things someone tells you about himself is that he's got a really secret job that I can't tell you about . Especially when you haven't even asked

I watched the first 2 last night. I dont think enough detail was given about how Sarah was drawn in. The programme really did make it look like he said "the IRA are after you, let's go" and she did. There must have been much more to it. It was astonishing to watch the "10 months/4 years/9 years on the run" appear on the screen and think WTF??

I don't think this series did Sarah any favours.

I've just finished it. So many questions. Maria wasn't really mentioned, presumably declined to take part.

The dog breeder?

Could Sandra just be a kindred spirit of his?

None of it makes any sense!

Oh. My. God! Just binged watched it.

If you google the wife's name and beagles you'll see pics of her with winning dog.

The poor day, he obviously had the British stiff upper lip, but my god his heart was breaking. Do you think he lost his business because of all the time he spent looking for his daughter?

And why were the Brit police only interested when the American got "lost". What about the 10 years of that other poor girl.

And the poor woman, Maria? Who had kids to him. I'd love to hear her story but completely understand why she'd want to stay out of the documentary.

What a vile evil psychopath, but unfortunately where there are lonely people you get the sharks circling.

I watched all of this last night as I could not stop watching. I think the fact that he isolated them very quickly and then after he separated her from the other's may have been a bit of a reason. Also they could have lived very sheltered lives before going to uni. I found it shocking to watch and how cruel he was at the end when he locked her in that crappy dirty bathroom with no food and then wanted sex with her when he returned. She was totally broken then after been isolated for so many years with no identity of her own. I do get what some are saying as I would not have believed his story at the beginning and would not have let him have persuaded me to go on the run. But people are different but I do get how she could not leave at the end as he had her totally worn down, emotionally broken and she had lost all of her identity. Shocking that he is still out there and how that poor brother and sister had not seen their mum in so many years. Really felt for them so much. Hope that vile man ends up in prison and they get to see their mum again. Why was that lock on the bedroom door in the house they used to live in, was he locking the mum in there. Some evil people in our world shocking.