The Puppet Master, Netflix

[bonfireheart]

Really need to talk to someone about this! :)

@GruffaloSolja

Agree. So many questions

Why are all the recent photos of sandra blurred out? Nobody would never recognise her if they met her

I would like to know more about him ajd his background. He's clearly very skilled in his approach

This was an extraordinary harrowing story and also a bewildering and frustrating watch. I'm glad there's a thread on this to explore what we just saw there and also the mixed feelings we feel as we watch. I think it's important to allow posters to express their reaction without fear of being called victim blamers. Otherwise it just shuts the thread down and people won't give honest reactions.

We all know about grooming, coercive control, and psychopathy and we all know who is the baddie is in this story, but there is confusion about other dynamics going on amongst the victims and yes I think fear does play a massive part in what motivates the victims. I don't have 100% sympathy with Sandra though because she has children and here in the UK we have a social service system geared around protecting children - not protecting adults of abuse. The mother is still responsible for protecting her children first and foremost. My sympathises align with that - Sandra's kids are so traumatised by this situation and Sandra knows he is a con man and that she has a decent ex who would help her. My feelings are therefore mixed.

I would like to know more about him ajd his background. He's clearly very skilled in his approach

Yes I'd like to know about his family background - there was nothing on that at all. What motivated him to behave like this - was it all related to money? Can't have been. Clearly a psychopath or narcissist or both.

Like when he didn't pick the daughter up from her hair dressing placement job, why did she sleep on the salon floor? Why didn't she call him? Or get a bus or a taxi home? Why was that the catalyst for her leaving home. Is got to be more too it than that.

Yes I thought that. You would think you would just make your own way home. I assumed it was the last straw for her - and she needed to get away from him and go to her dad.

He cant purely motivated by money. If he were, he'd probably have gotten rich in a car-sales job.

She didn't reunite with her dad and brother until a year later though. She didn't go and live with them straight away. She lived on her own first. I wonder if the people she worked with at the salon with noticed something weird was going on and organised an intervention or something.

He definitely likes the power and control he has over people. Probably even more than the money he is swindling from them.

I wonder if poor Sandra is living in a 'safe house' like Sarah did 🥺

Just started watching the series and made merl feel sad that he looks to be a highly dangerous individual. It reminded me of a thread on here where the OP’s friend had a new boyfriend who said he was a secret agent (aka probably married) or at least he’s not who he says he is. I wonder if the level of interest in the programme would change the police’s approach to perhaps reviewing the case.

*me

Binged this.
What a terrifying man. I wondered whether there were others in safe houses he just left?
Detective Dad was amazing.
I totally understood how he managed to control his victims.

[quote karlakourt]@GruffaloSolja

Agree. So many questions

Why are all the recent photos of sandra blurred out? Nobody would never recognise her if they met her[/quote]
Because she's an adult with free will who has done nothing wrong and who declined to take part in the proramme.

@Inkanta

Like when he didn't pick the daughter up from her hair dressing placement job, why did she sleep on the salon floor? Why didn't she call him? Or get a bus or a taxi home? Why was that the catalyst for her leaving home. Is got to be more too it than that.

Yes I thought that. You would think you would just make your own way home. I assumed it was the last straw for her - and she needed to get away from him and go to her dad.

I assumed she was not "allowed" to go home any other way. Because after work didn't she have to sit in the car with him for hours doing "surveillance"?

My question though was why she took a photo of where she slept. To my mind, that means she knew it was wrong. Though by then she did anyway I think

Generally agree the series could have had more detail and been a few more episodes.

@VanGoghsDog

So they contacted her and she declined to give permission?

Is that a thing? What about Freegard? Did he consent to his photos being used?

Genuinely curious. I thought she was a missing person

@northdownsouth7

Yes i thought of the lady whose boyfriend is in the army and leads a secret life

I assumed she was not "allowed" to go home any other way. Because after work didn't she have to sit in the car with him for hours doing "surveillance"?

Yes think you're right!

How brave that girl was to escape, break the rules and get away from him.

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor

What was he threatening them with them to make them stay? They kind of glossed over that.

As per the reason he was released - it wasn't kidnap, it was a psychological hold over them. It's a process of removal from normal and other sources of people. It's like a cult. Sitting at home on the sofa it seems ridiculous to us I agree.

I'm hoping that the release of this on Netflix will somewhere make someone recognise Sandra and him hiding out wherever they are in France or Europe. The problem is her desire to be with him.

I remember this going to court and I'm horrified he got out on appeal. He is a dangerous psychopath and a danger to anyone vulnerable. This is what we know about him. There will be many other victims that we know nothing of. Absolutely horrific.

Sandra can't be 'rescued', she believes she's there of her own free will. Freegard has gaslighted her to a state of 'Stockholm syndrome', I guess. Because he wasn't found guilty of a crime the film makers are restricted by legal constraints so much detail has had to be omitted. He seems like a busy boy though, there must be other women out there who've had interaction either him. I hope some find the courage to contact the police. This, in the week when one of the women put into a similar situation by an undercover police officer, a real one, managed to get 250k damages from the Met. Consent obtained by duplicity is not consent, it's rape, and that copper should also be in jail.

[quote karlakourt]@VanGoghsDog

So they contacted her and she declined to give permission?

Is that a thing? What about Freegard? Did he consent to his photos being used?

Genuinely curious. I thought she was a missing person [/quote]
She's not a missing person, she appeared at the court case for the inheritance by video. The police spoke to her and she said she was happy to stay with him. They said as she's over 18 they can't get involved further.

I assumed she was not "allowed" to go home any other way. Because after work didn't she have to sit in the car with him for hours doing "surveillance"?

It was Sarah and John that needed to sit in the car and do surveillance with him, I don't think Sophie did? It was part of the MI5 cover (but that didn't exist for Sophie and Sandra). However, he did make Sophie wait and wait and wait for him to pick her up (just another form of control and way to isolate her).

She also said that she was paying £300 pcm board but only making just over £400, so it's quite possible she simply didn't have the money for a taxi and knew/suspected that if she'd got one home he wouldn't have paid it, or would have made her life hell for it because he was 'on his way, why didn't she wait rather than wasting money' or similar.

It's also quite possible there were no decent bus routes either. He had been living with them and manipulating them for a while but this point (she lived with him for two years I think, and this was the last straw for her) so it's quite possible he'd 'kindly helped' her find a job where she'd have to rely on him to get her there etc.

We didn't really get enough backstory to make it fully clear, but I can't imagine someone would choose to sleep on their work floor rather than going home, if getting home was a viable alternative.

Further note that at least one of his victims has 2 children by him and their privacy needs protection. Unfortunately this helps the utter bastard to keep himself out of reach. What we need is a documentary devoted to clearly explaining coercive control, how easy it is for people to surrender their autonomy in the belief that its their decision and why we allow this to happen to us. Anyone can meet a conman and be seduced. We need to educate ourselves to recognise this possibility instead of just expressing sympathy or contempt for 'letting this happen' to us.

@longwayoff

Further note that at least one of his victims has 2 children by him and their privacy needs protection. Unfortunately this helps the utter bastard to keep himself out of reach. What we need is a documentary devoted to clearly explaining coercive control, how easy it is for people to surrender their autonomy in the belief that its their decision and why we allow this to happen to us. Anyone can meet a conman and be seduced. We need to educate ourselves to recognise this possibility instead of just expressing sympathy or contempt for 'letting this happen' to us.

Amen