The Puppet Master, Netflix

[bonfireheart]

Really need to talk to someone about this! :)

Sarah’s dad said someone saw the bloke coming out the house. Not sure if it was one of the private detectives he employed or if he’d done an appeal to the public locally but he said he knew about the house because of a tip off.

I don’t understand how he got off the kidnap charge. Sarah said she was locked in a bathroom for days at a time. Maybe technically agreed to be locked in???

Perfect crime, eh? All that evil and cruelty and he keeps just getting away with it.

Sarah said she was locked in a bathroom for days at a time. Maybe technically agreed to be locked in

The creep returned to the bathroom and said can I be your boyfriend - (words to that effect) and she was under his spell again. That part feels like Stockholm Syndrome.

I don’t understand how he got off the kidnap charge. Sarah said she was locked in a bathroom for days at a time. Maybe technically agreed to be locked in???

It was to do with the way the jury were directed to consider the evidence and then interpretation of the law. I read the judgement from the Court of Appeal online. The judge in the trial directed the jury to consider that inducing someone to go somewhere, even if the defendant isn't with them, would be kidnapping. It isn't.

One of the key components of kidnapping is that the victim has to be 'taken' somewhere. If the defendant isn't there, the victim isn't being 'taken' or 'carried off' by them.

Because the judge directed the jury incorrectly, there was an argument that the jury convicted Freegard for kidnapping on the basis of him making Sarah and John move themselves. This doesn't fit the legal definition of kidnapping. The judges in the Court of Appeal did say that it's possible there could have been discrete, specific instances of Freegard being in the car (like when he moved Sarah to the bathroom) and therefore 'taking' them somewhere, but they couldn't assume the jury's verdict would remain the same if they'd been properly directed by the judge, so the convictions couldn't stand.

I just watched this in one sitting.
Sarah's dad is the dogs bollocks. What an amazing guy.

Sarah's dad was amazing, I wanted to marry him! But I'd settle for Sandra's ex instead, he was lovely as well.

Sandra's ex and her children are wonderful people. Her ex husband is everything that odious lying shit will never be.

Watched this today and I'm gobsmacked, these poor people. Has anyone seen the Times article from this week at the house in Berkshire? To think he is still walking the streets blows my mind.

@littlemissminor

Watched this today and I'm gobsmacked, these poor people. Has anyone seen the Times article from this week at the house in Berkshire? To think he is still walking the streets blows my mind.

His house ?

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor

What was he threatening them with them to make them stay? They kind of glossed over that.

Something about them being in danger from the ira and also their parents/family in danger

Oh yes ,of course. I was so stunned at the whole thing I forgot that bit !

I think so - there is a picture of him stood in a hallway on the phone to someone, whilst the Times reporters were allegedly there....

images.app.goo.gl/Rk2ae4J3it3jNyws7

I wonder if Sandra has been allowed to watch the programme?

@Inkanta

Sarah said she was locked in a bathroom for days at a time. Maybe technically agreed to be locked in

The creep returned to the bathroom and said can I be your boyfriend - (words to that effect) and she was under his spell again. That part feels like Stockholm Syndrome.

It wasn’t about being under his spell, it was about being terrified for her life and going along with his demands to try to keep herself safe. By this point he’d isolated her from everything and everyone she knew, stripped her of her identity and kept her prisoner.

He doesn’t need to exert physical force (though he seems to do that too), he does it all psychologically. The IRA stuff seemed bonkers to us but he picked on vulnerable people and then events seemed to track with his knowledge, so his victims believed him. By the time they’d been in long enough to start to really question it (why aren’t we being followed, why would a spy tell me they’re a spy, etc) they’d been brainwashed by him and so weren’t in a position to do so. They aren’t to blame, he is. They are victims of his psychological cruelty.

Everything BalladOfBarryAndFreda said.

It's a whole grooming process. How many times do you see on here a thread entitled' 'Is he abusive' to open the thread to clear and what is sometimes extreme abuse and you do think how can they not see it? But it's the same process really although this is an extreme examples.

The first step is to choose your victims wisely. These were young and at Agricultural college seemingly from farming families so not really worldly wise. There had been someone at the college arrested for bomb making for the IRA so that was true fact and nothing to do with RHF but he took advantage of that fact. One of them did have a friend who had committed suicide so RHF locked onto that and linked it to the IRA incident claiming he didn't commit suicide but had been murdered by the IRA. He completely hooked in the male participant in to 'helping' him in his investigation and he therefore assisted in getting the two girls to go away with them. By the time they were told the IRA story they'd been separated from everything familiar and were totally disorientated. They were then separated form each other and by then they were pretty much under his control and one of them actually married him and had 2 children with him.

Also once Sarah had persuaded her father to pay the money she was told not to call back so thought she had been completely disowned by her family. She thought she had no one else but RHF who was providing her with accommodation and work and by that point didn't have the where with all to just leave.

This was so believable. He didn't just coerce sarah but her boyfriend And friend too: how did all 3 of them believe him? If he was working for mi5, why weren't they sending him money?

He must be doing it for more than money. He could probably make a more
Money in sales

Obviously he’s not just doing it for the money 🤦🏻‍♀️

He very clearly operates on controlling and coercing victims. That’s how he gets his kicks.

i watched this, i could not believe how stupid people can be, including their families.
Actually, especially their families = why did they give him money!?

sad about sandras children, great kids including her ex. so sad

Lots of victim blaming on this thread sadly.

Being groomed and coercively controlled does not make you stupid.

@KirkstallAbbess

Lots of victim blaming on this thread sadly.

Being groomed and coercively controlled does not make you stupid.

Agreed, I feel quite saddened by it actually.

@GettingItOutThere

i watched this, i could not believe how stupid people can be, including their families. Actually, especially their families = why did they give him money!?

sad about sandras children, great kids including her ex. so sad

The man is a psychopath, these people are on another level. Don't blame the victims, blame the fucker responsible.

@KirkstallAbbess

Lots of victim blaming on this thread sadly.

Being groomed and coercively controlled does not make you stupid.

This times a million!

I know sandra is a victim but i still feel angry about the way she let him treat her children. Locking the young boy outside? Soo bizarre

I feel saddened by it actually

@WheelieBinPrincess, it just makes you realise how many people are actually making it easier and more acceptable for abusers to continue by reinforcing the narrative that victims of this type of abuse are somehow to blame, consenting or culpable.

I'm glad there's a thread on this. I too felt as though there was a massive chunk of back story left out of this documentary. They could have made a full 8 episode series out of it. I know I would have watched it all. I definitely wanted to know a lot more about the psychology of both the perpetrator and the victims. I really wanted to understand why they were all. He must have been so convincing to con all these people. It didn't surprise me at all that he used to be a car sales man.

I think there were a lot more questions than answers. Like when he didn't pick the daughter up from her hair dressing placement job, why did she sleep on the salon floor? Why didn't she call him? Or get a bus or a taxi home? Why was that the catalyst for her leaving home. Is got to be more too it than that.