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Telly addicts

Return to Hogwarts - How will you watch it?

163 replies

Ohdoleavemealone · 31/12/2021 21:25

I was looking forward to this until I read today that it is only streaming on HBO????
Is it likely to be available anywhere else afterwards?

OP posts:
lottiegarbanzo · 04/01/2022 16:40

I mean it does seem a strange argument, doesn't it? 'Agree that we pose no risk to you and should be allowed into facilities provided for your most vulnerable and damaged sisters, or we'll rape and kill you!'.

The moderate trans people must be so disgusted and embarrassed by the MRA trolls who've appropriated their cause. But that is their battle to fight. We're not their involuntary human shield.

Waitwhat23 · 04/01/2022 17:02

I can't remember the exact quote but didn't JKR say something along those lines recently? To paraphrase, 'if you're arguing that women should allow you ino single sex spaces, maybe don't fuel fears about violence by...constantly making rape and death threats'

senua · 04/01/2022 22:29

Or if they wished to campaign for MEN to behave better, so that [anybody] could feel safe and comfortable using the single sex provision already available to them
This. Absolutely this.
All the rest is victim-blaming.

AlwaysAWoman · 05/01/2022 00:04

I would be more than happy with 'third' spaces and I would stand with trans people however I could to help achieve these.

However, I will never accept men in womens spaces, and that includes 'transwomen'. Because, quite simply they are not women, however much proclaim to be.

I honestly don't know how it has come to this- why is it ok to claim to be a different sex but not race, for example?

lottiegarbanzo · 05/01/2022 10:07

Well I do know that one, why sex but not race and it's because of confusion between sex and gender. People can alter their gender-based ideas and performance, unlike their race but also not their sex. Though interestingly, while skin colour is biological, 'race' is very much a social construct (a deeply embedded, culturally laden one that cannot be casually messed with, respectfully), so more similar to gender than perhaps we'd previously recognised. The only inherent and immutable physical phenomenon in that group is sex.

I think a lot of this issue and the natural, lightly held 'why not be kind and considerate towards the ordinary, harmless, 'real' transwomen' attitude, that so many people, who haven't thought the subject through, hold, is based in nice people assuming that other people are as nice as they are.

This happens all the time, in all aspects of life. Nice, well-behaved people attribute good motivations to others. Bad motivations and unthinking bad behaviour, just don't occur to them. Whereas selfish, manipulative and aggressive people assume that everyone else is as scheming, unpleasant and oppressive as they are and use this assumption to justify their own actions.

You see it on here, in all topics of conversation, all the time.

It's a really important thought to hold in mind, in any situation; 'This person's motivation and normal pattern of behaviour might be quite different from mine. Therefore I cannot predict the way they will behave next. If I want to understand them, I need to step back, listen carefully to what they're saying, look at what they do, then draw inferences from that gradually, perhaps considering well-known behavioural patterns and statistics, without overlaying it all with a thick layer of my own wishful thinking.'

The other general point, usually relevant to the relationships board, that I think is relevant here is 'never feel sorry for someone who has power over you'. Well, you can feel it but don't let it influence your decision-making.

I think that's the basis of the trick here - performed knowingly by the TRAs, innocently by ordinary trans people - perpetuation of the idea that trans people are universally the most oppressed people, more so than women, always and in every situation. So the flipping of normal ideas about who has power over whom.

Yet these ultra oppressed people retain male privilege in a patriarchal society. They are also the subjects of pity by other men, people who do hold more power, so can legitimately feel sorry for them and act upon that.

These seem to me to be the reasons why their wishes are accommodated in such a knee-jerk way. While other, far more disadvantaged groups, like people with disabilities, have had to campaign for decades to get (still inadequate) access to suitable loos, transport, buildings and jobs. The oppressed have always been oppressed, whereas transwomen are perceived by men, and perceive themselves, as falling from a great height, privilege-wise, so deserving to be caught, by everybody beneath them.

If you think about it in terms of power, you realise that in some situations, women are always below male-bodied people, never above them. Therefore, we have to protect women's sex-based interests and keep our empathy for trans people abstract and available for other, harmless, situations.

Of course the biggest, maddest TRA trick is portrayal of the view that people cannot change sex and that sex is sometimes more important than gender, as one that belongs to 'feminists'. When it is in fact the normal, everyday view of most people; of the man in the pub, on the bus, in the football team. They're just not interested in talking to those people, because they do not hold anything the TRAs want (except the power to grant their wishes). Far more productive to pull the wool over their eyes, then plead oppression.

Thus, JKR is portrayed as having said something terribly transphobic just for writing down what most men and women think. That lie has been pushed so hard, so deliberately (just like the harmlesses of smoking, the unreality of climate change were in the recent past), that most people, without the time to read everything, believe it unquestioningly.

Then... when people do read what she said and recognise it as normal and uncontroversial, they arrive at the very uncomfortable feeling that their view is not welcome in wider society (rather than in fact, only among the 'pro-smoking, pro-fossil fuels analogous' TRA lobby).

That's why Jo's been such a heroine. She's chosen to speak out, to point out that in fact, the emperor has no clothes.

lottiegarbanzo · 05/01/2022 10:37

That was a lot of wittering! I do also realise that talk of power and oppression are deeply dated and unfashionable and that most women prefer to see themselves as post-feminist and equal, so just don't look at things in terms of power and class (group) analysis. Seeing oneself as equal, powerful and acting out of kindness, generosity and free choice, not because you've been told to, with a hint of menace, is empowering.

Also, nice people make nice friends. So the trans people who are friends with nice, well-mannered women are nice, well-mannered trans people. That's who we know, so what we see.

Less kindly motivated trans people or TRA trolls probably aren't close friends with a lot of women.

IHateCoronavirus · 05/01/2022 18:56

lottiegarbanzo Very insightful, I enjoyed reading that thanks.

Monsoon92 · 07/01/2022 00:31

Well I was hoping to actually discuss the show with people on here! Surely just create a separate thread if you want to complain about it? I loved it, and it's made me want to watch all the films again. They didn't say anything that I hadn't already heard, but I love reunion shows and I'm so jealous that they got to grow up on that set and have those experiences.

Aderyn21 · 07/01/2022 07:37

I think most of us loved watching the films and because those kids had such an amazing experience, one that's set them up for life, it's difficult to watch them throw the woman they owe it to, under the bus!

MaryAndHerNet · 07/01/2022 08:10

@Aderyn21

I think most of us loved watching the films and because those kids had such an amazing experience, one that's set them up for life, it's difficult to watch them throw the woman they owe it to, under the bus!
Exactly this. They're awful actors that got a break that they wouldn't have got if not for JK herself. To throw that back in her face because she supports women over rapists, it's sick and anyone that can't see that has probably not done any reading beyond anti JK tweets.
LondonWolf · 07/01/2022 09:48

@lottiegarbanzo

Thank you for your posts. There is some analysis in them that I found very helpful in considering the behaviour of certain people in my life and how to deal with it. Not TRA but certainly displaying similar behavioural traits as some of the more aggressive of their ilk at times

lottiegarbanzo · 07/01/2022 10:03

Thanks LondonWolf and IHateCoronavirus I had a horrible feeling I'd killed an enjoyable thread with verbosity there!

baffledbunny · 07/01/2022 11:16

@lottiegarbanzo

Thanks LondonWolf and IHateCoronavirus I had a horrible feeling I'd killed an enjoyable thread with verbosity there!
No it's fine, sorry I feel like I derailed the thread earlier by asking about JKR's views!

Thanks so much for your comments and explanations @LottieGarbanzo. Sorry I haven't responded yet. I guess I was just getting my head around some of the issues, watched a few youtube videos etc to learn more and figure out my thoughts.

Where I think I stand now is that I dont' particularly want transwomen to enter women-only safe spaces such as DV shelters, womens loos, support groups and prisons, as I understand the reasons for them to exist. However I fully support TW if they want to set up their own. In fact, if I was running a shelter, I would look into setting up a separate service for transwomen who are victims of violence and other issues. That way they can get targeted support. (I know there are issues around funding but that's a separate topic). And I was a transwoman it would make more sense for me to attend one that is targeted at my issues and concerns, than another group that could be hostile to my presence, or feel like I'm making the issue about me when it was about them. Why wouldn't I?

Regarding whether TWAW, I'm not sure that I want to go as far as to deny their gender dysphoria. If they feel that their gender is female despite being born male, who am I to say otherwise? I would still respect their wishes and pronouns and I actually admire the ones that have gone the whole way and are taking the hormones or having the surgery to make the changes they want to see. It can't be an easy thing to do and is probably not something they would enter into lightly.

I know there are lots more to discuss but anyway better end this now as don't want to derail the thread further! Thanks.

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