The Handmaid's Tale Series 4 - finale coming up, no spoilers please.

[Clawdy]

New thread, looking forward to finale, but wishing it really was the last episode, with all storylines and characters ending satisfactorily.

@NashvilleQueen

Emily is now responsible for the death of the woman in the Colonies, the attack on Aunt Lydia and now has involvement in this murder of Fred.

Didn't she also steal the car in the market square and squish a guard?

June has killed/been responsible for killing a lot of people too. Commander Winslow, the guardian that Esther killed, the commanders poisoned by the dodgy liqour and now Fred.

June has killed/been responsible for killing a lot of people too.

She also let Eleanor die when she could probably have been saved.

Loved that. I also was hoping he'd face the other commanders and see the wall because I think that would be so terrifying for him. I was not expecting what happened! But it felt good. I missed what June bit, was it his lip?

I think Fiennes did a great job with Fred, so good at manipulating with fake kind eyes.

(I do wish people wouldn't mention the testaments)

I've just been reading this thread back a few pages, i haven't rtft.

I loved the book, "enjoyed" series 1, struggled with series 2, only watched a bit in between then and this series. I loved this series. I loved the anger. It reminded of the book The Power, I was annoyed by the book but one of the essential themes was that these guys aren't going to back off until we are angry, frighten them and hurt them back. I didn't see it as a pack of wolves, it was a cinematic portrayal of raw anger at the endless injustice, and I cried with the beauty of it. It felt to me that this whole series was a deadpan look back at the viewer as if to ask, can you really bear how truly angry I am?

My struggle is Serena. Her child could be taken away, she could be sent back to gilead, she could become a handmaid, etc. We're, the viewer, put in this uncomfortable position; what do we want for her character? I found this when June spoke of Serna's child dying. I've had miscarriages, I don't want anyone else to experience that. Similarly, would we want her to be sent back to experience the horrors of being a woman without power in Gilead?

Fred's experience of the justice system was skewed, as it can be for a person of privilege. The same would possibly be true for Serena, she was already asserting her rights as a person used to her privilege. What is justice for her crimes when faced with these two limited options of Canada or Gilead?

dudsville 'what is justice for her crimes when faced with these two limited options of Canada or Gilead?'

Oh for revenge to be complete for Serena's crimes, it just has to be her being returned to Gilead and being robbed of any status she held. Her baby should be given to another family and she should become a Handmaid. How satisfying would that be!

@dapsnotplimsolls

I'm amusing myself by trying to work out what Serena would hate the most - being a handmaid for the Puttnams (would still see her baby) or staying in Canada but with her baby taken away ...

Both thoughts make me feel sick. I know Serena is awful and she isn't going to get a happy ending, but I just really dont want to see it eeeek

Just catching up!

There were moments when I actually cheered out loud in this episode. Notably the scenes involving Lawrence and Nick….in particular when Nick belted Fred in nomansland…up until that point, I’m sure Fred still thought he had some co trip over Nick. Also when Fred was getting ready for his jaunt to Geneva and Tuello arrested him…(loved the bit where he asked that guy to get his luggage seconds before he was arrested!)

I didn’t love the wilderness scenes…I love a June and Nick snog but that one for me made me really uncomfortable when only seconds before I was revelling in Nick being the one to deliver Fred to June.

I was a bit disappointed not to see Janine/Esther/Lydia again and very disappointed that Serena hasn’t had the baby yet…I guess they need some threads for season 5.

My assumption is she is leaving Luke to go back into Gilead pretty much because that’s exactly what I DONT want to happen 😁

She also let Eleanor die when she could probably have been saved.

But should she have been saved?

I think June could be pretty instrumental in Canada now she can pull strings from the outside via Cmr Lawrence and Nick. But she will definitely go back into Gilead for Hannah at some point!

Have just caught up now, with the show and this thread - and have listened to some of the Eyes on Gilead podcast.

I loved this episode. It was appropriately satisfying but also unexpectedly shocking.

I loved the way Fred got his comeuppance, and that June got her wish to frighten him to death. I loved that Tuello finally did get justice for June, as well as (with Lawrence and Nick) engineering the return of Fred to Gilead.

I thought it was a great touch to release Fred into No Man's Land - because no-one actually wants him any more. Canada don't want him any more, having got all the key information out of him (plus probably realising that he's being very selective about the truth of his own behaviour), and Gilead won't want him as he's a traitor in their eyes.

Only June 'wants' him - and in No Man's Land there is nothing to stop her (and the other handmaids) wreaking vengeance on him, in the most horrific way.

The killing of Fred is a final resolution of their handmaid's training as well - killing by hand a rapist. And horrific as it was (especially June biting Fred) it was an appropriate end for Fred, given what he had set up and done in Gilead.

What intrigues me now is what's going to happen to Serena. It was noticeable in the scene where Fred comes to say goodbye before he 'goes to Geneva' that she was on the phone to someone with something that sounded important/business-like - what was she speaking about/arranging? I'd love for her, in some kind of way, to be able to go back to her own, independent life - she was much more intelligent and successful that Fred 'back in the day', of course.

But - and it's a huge but - she also has to be punished for her crimes against June, so how will that play out?

Lots of juicy threads for series 5 to pick up on!

Oh, and loved Emily quoting the bible to June, when they were sitting on the front step:

"The righteous will rejoice in vengeance and wash their feet in the blood of the wicked."

From the point of view of the laws of Gilead, was Fred a Rapist?

Soup I do not think you are allowed to have sex with handmaids outside the ceremony. Sex is allowed for conceiving children.

@JaninesEyePatch

June has killed/been responsible for killing a lot of people too.

She also let Eleanor die when she could probably have been saved.

I felt that was mercy.

Yes, @SoupDragon Fred was a rapist - you're only allowed to have sex with your handmaid during the ceremony.

I came across this site today, which is also interesting

I did know about the crime of having sex outside of the ceremony but assumed that was a different crime to rape.

I haven't really been paying attention to the intricacies of Gilead law though!

It's interesting that the actual rape (ceremony) isn't a crime but consensual sex outside of the ceremony is.

Really enjoyed the ending very apt that it was Gilead retribution and how Tuello referenced Gilead's laws that Fred helped to write. They've left it open with Serena and didn't want to tie up too many loose ends before the next series. I wonder if they read threads like this to feed ideas into the next series .

I love how the characters are so complicated HMT is so well written and acted. Women characters are strong and seem to have more screen time which is still (unfortunately) rare. They kept Fred awful but true to character right to the end - I'm a man and have rights - no concern for women and their rights. That he referred to June as offred, was disparaging about the oncologist at Jezebels etc. He really hated women and didn't change even in Canada. Not sure why he was ok with Serena reading and writing though. Maybe because she was pregnant.

I wonder if they're going to fill in the gap for the next series between this ending and The Testaments?

@SoupDragon

It's interesting that the actual rape (ceremony) isn't a crime but consensual sex outside of the ceremony is.

It’s all about ego and control of others using access to women to bolster both.

The important men tell you when you can have sex with them women they own. And don’t you forget that these aren’t your women, they are their women. They’re just allowing you very restricted access to them.

With regard to June allowing Eleanor to die - June didn't let her die to be merciful - it was because she was worried Eleanor was going to ruin their plan to get the kids out.

There was a scene early on in the series where Serena tried to initiate sex with Fred, but was brushed off by him and told that (I'm paraphrasing) lustfulness was a sin.

So sex (officially at least) is for procreation only. The existence of Jezebels just goes to show how hypocritical they all are. (Plus, of course, the name of the brothel itself is all about how evil the women are, rather than the men!)

@JaninesEyePatch

With regard to June allowing Eleanor to die - June didn't let her die to be merciful - it was because she was worried Eleanor was going to ruin their plan to get the kids out.

It wasn’t as straightforward as that though. There was also the mercy aspect. Would June have let Eleanor die if there was no risk to the plan being ruined? Tbh I think she still would. Eleanor was really suffering and would only suffer more.

So sex (officially at least) is for procreation only. The existence of Jezebels just goes to show how hypocritical they all are. (Plus, of course, the name of the brothel itself is all about how evil the women are, rather than the men!)

Fred justified that to June by saying that 'men needed variety'. And when Janine talked about her rape, Aunt Lydia got them all (including Janine herself) to say it was Janine's fault for leading them on.

It doesn't seemed to have occurred to any of the men in Gilead to see any problem with their apparently being incapable of controlling themselves.

In light of what is happening in the world today and in particular in Afghanistan, Margaret Atwood 's The Handmaid's Tale was sadly all too prescient.

I know all the awful things done to women in the book had happened in real life.
That it is still continuing is utterly heartbreaking.