Anne Boleyn as a black woman

[Frustratedbeyondbelief]

Am anyone explain why ? I know this question raises the issue of race which is highly controversial. It is not meant to be goady.. just perplexed by what they are trying to achieve. To me like playing GHandi and Martin Luther King as while men..

For context I hope my non racial credentials as a mother of mixed race children assist in not seeing this as an 'anti black' thread ... I genuinely would like to be educated as to why this is thought to be a 'good thing' when simply factually incorrect . ? Her home at Hever is less than a mile away, I have never had any idea she was black or mixed race. Just seems a bit 'trendy' ...

Maybe when they held the auditions she performed best on the day!

if we ONLY allow white actors to represent notable white historical characters on TV, we reduce the number of lead roles open to people of colour

We only allow men to represent notable male historical characters on TV, hugely reducing the number of lead roles open to women. Is that not ok then? Should we have a woman playing Henry the 8th, all the Popes, Roman emporers etc etc?

@Pinkblueberry

The fact is that Britain was an overwhelmingly white country until very recently. That means that any drama set in any period of British history prior to about the 1970s is going to be about white people.

This is completely incorrect. We need better history education and better historical dramas...

It is absolutely correct. Even now, after successive waves of immigration, only 14% of the British population belongs to an ethnic minority. The idea that pre modern Britain was some sort of ethnic melting pot is nonsensical revisionism.

@PaperbackRider

if we ONLY allow white actors to represent notable white historical characters on TV, we reduce the number of lead roles open to people of colour

We only allow men to represent notable male historical characters on TV, hugely reducing the number of lead roles open to women. Is that not ok then? Should we have a woman playing Henry the 8th, all the Popes, Roman emporers etc etc?

I mean, why not?

It's not like only a finite number of films can be made. If someone has an urge to portray Henry VIII as a woman, what harm? Maxine Peake played Hamlet and the sky didn't fall in.

@Serpenta there have always been historical dramas that do not pretend to any historical accuracy at all. But most do at least pretend to be historically accurate. And most of the public seem to want that.

I saw Romeo and Juliet at the Globe and Tybalt was played by a black woman - worked absolutely brilliantly, it was several years ago and it still really stands out in my mind as inspired casting. Saw Harry Potter the cursed child and Hermoine was played by a black actress and it seemed like they'd just stuck her in to make it more PC and it didn't work at all for me - especially as they seemed to have gone to a lot of effort to ensure all the other characters really resembled their counterparts from the films.
I haven't watched Anne Boleyn but I'm not convinced it would work in that role.

Nobody thinks Shakespeares Romeo and Juliet is historically accurate. Romeo and Juliet are made-up people.

As a mixed race woman I find it patronising. Aren’t there enough black or mixed race women in history to write out instead of being shoe horned into white history (massive roll eyes!)

I don’t know why they fo it. You wouldn’t make Pocahontas white or Michelle Obama, give me strength!

@IcedPurple I wasn't claiming that they were, you said there were "certainly none in the Tudor courts", which is wrong. There were, and black women too, as recored in the court of James I. There is a gravestone of a black knight from the Tudor era, too. So they certainly were in the courts, and it's incorrect to posit otherwise.

@AssassinatedBeauty

*A male playing a female role?

A 50 year old playing a 15 year old?*

These things happen frequently, particularly male/female roles being played by the opposite sex. The actual age of actors is very often is irrelevant to the role. 50 playing a 15 year old might make it difficult to suspend disbelief, but perhaps not depending on the production.

Quite, I have seen many programmes where alleged high schoolers are played by obviously 20+ year olds.

@IcedPurple The first known Briton was almost certainly black, according to DNA analysis...

[quote babbaloushka]@IcedPurple I wasn't claiming that they were, you said there were "certainly none in the Tudor courts", which is wrong. There were, and black women too, as recored in the court of James I. There is a gravestone of a black knight from the Tudor era, too. So they certainly were in the courts, and it's incorrect to posit otherwise.[/quote]
How many black women were in King Henry's court?

Can you name them?

@Lovelanguedoc

53SmidgenofaPigeon.What was the problem with the adaptation of ‘Anne with an E’?!! Where to begin! Aunt Josephine portrayed as a lesbian, Billy Andrews portrayed as a bully, Miss Stacy wearing trousers and riding a bike, Mrs. Barry as a social climber, Gilbert Blythe travelling to the West Indies, Ruby Gillis not dying of consumption. Apart from those issues it was a great adaptation!

Ruby Gillies doesn't die?

WTF?

[quote babbaloushka]@IcedPurple The first known Briton was almost certainly black, according to DNA analysis...[/quote]
All human beings were black if you go back far enough.

Doesn't change the fact that until the post-war period, Britain was an overwhelmingly white country. I'm not sure why people are trying to pretend otherwise, because it is demonstrably true.

@babbaloushka I hate twenty-year-olds playing high schoolers. Look at something like Grease. It looks ridiculous.

@IcedPurple Yes, mostly white, but not wholly, and they were not absent from the court as you incorrectly asserted. The two black women in James' court were know as ‘blak Margaret’ and ‘blak Elene’, and he also enjoyed the company of a ‘Moris barne’, likely a black prostitute. If you do even a little research you'll find there were many documented, some in jousting, in servitude, some in the courts.

@Frustratedbeyondbelief

Am anyone explain why ? I know this question raises the issue of race which is highly controversial. It is not meant to be goady.. just perplexed by what they are trying to achieve. To me like playing GHandi and Martin Luther King as while men..

For context I hope my non racial credentials as a mother of mixed race children assist in not seeing this as an 'anti black' thread ... I genuinely would like to be educated as to why this is thought to be a 'good thing' when simply factually incorrect . ? Her home at Hever is less than a mile away, I have never had any idea she was black or mixed race. Just seems a bit 'trendy' ...

I can't be a racist because I have mixed race children but......(insert racist opinion)

[quote babbaloushka]@IcedPurple Yes, mostly white, but not wholly, and they were not absent from the court as you incorrectly asserted. The two black women in James' court were know as ‘blak Margaret’ and ‘blak Elene’, and he also enjoyed the company of a ‘Moris barne’, likely a black prostitute. If you do even a little research you'll find there were many documented, some in jousting, in servitude, some in the courts.[/quote]
I didn't ask you about King James - a Stuart not a Tudor. He came to the throne nearly 70 years after the events in this drama. I asked you about Henry. I'm not aware of there being any black women in his court, which is why I asked you for their names.

There were some black people - mostly men - in Tudor England, but they numbered maybe a few hundred in total. The idea that a black woman would be considered a suitable bridge for a king of England is ludicrous.

@babbaloushka Margaret and Ellen were black slaves given as gifts to James. A drama based on them would be interesting. But it also highlights the ridiculousness in historical dramas of pretending racism does not exist.
Most black people in Britain in the past were entertainers. Entertainers of many ethnicities have travelled around the world for centuries.

@IcedPurple I thought you had made a mistake as I made no claim there were black women in Henry's court, though there were men. You have yet failed to concede that you were wrong about there being no black people in Tudor courts, so I can imagine your knowledge of the topic is scarcely great. I recommend this text if you would like to learn more, it's very interesting and indicates that the 350 documented black people in England between 1500 and 1640 is just the tip of the iceberg, and there were likely many more. It is The Oxford Companion to Black British History.

[quote brondary]@babbaloushka Margaret and Ellen were black slaves given as gifts to James. A drama based on them would be interesting. But it also highlights the ridiculousness in historical dramas of pretending racism does not exist.
Most black people in Britain in the past were entertainers. Entertainers of many ethnicities have travelled around the world for centuries.[/quote]
They were in indentured servitude, I believe, and were gifted money by James on several occasions, but naturally it's ridiculous to pretend that racism was not rampant, almost as ridiculous as trying to pretend no black people were ever involved in the Tudor Courts...

You have yet failed to concede that you were wrong about there being no black people in Tudor courts, so I can imagine your knowledge of the topic is scarcely great.

If you're going to adopt such a patronising tone, you might at least take the trouble to read my posts.

What I wrote was:

"There were hardly any black women in Tudor England. Certainly none at the Tudor court."

I didn't say 'black people'. I said 'black women'. For all your sneering, you've yet to prove me wrong on this.

@GrumpyHoonMain

She is widely believed to be mixed race. Her skin, as described by her physician, was ‘mulatto’ and ‘sallow’ was used a lot too - both of those words were used for mixed race people in those days.

Black people were in the UK in Elizabethan times and had jobs and businesses since the Middle Ages. St George is also another mixed race person which is totally ironic considering how many English racists fly his flag.

Can you provide this information as I have never heard this at all.

No not indentured servants. A proper history site explains this. Better to read these sites rather than populist sites.

www.medievalists.net/2019/02/elen-more-the-moorish-lass-in-james-ivs-court/

It was fashionable in Europe at the time of James Court for the very elite to have an African woman as a personal servant.
Just as it was fashionable in Victorian times in rich households to have a black footman.