Anne Boleyn as a black woman

[Frustratedbeyondbelief]

Am anyone explain why ? I know this question raises the issue of race which is highly controversial. It is not meant to be goady.. just perplexed by what they are trying to achieve. To me like playing GHandi and Martin Luther King as while men..

For context I hope my non racial credentials as a mother of mixed race children assist in not seeing this as an 'anti black' thread ... I genuinely would like to be educated as to why this is thought to be a 'good thing' when simply factually incorrect . ? Her home at Hever is less than a mile away, I have never had any idea she was black or mixed race. Just seems a bit 'trendy' ...

The mulatto and sallow were used as insults against Anne by her detractors. No one thought she was mixed race.
Her skin was also described by her detractors as jaundiced. They are basically saying she has a shit complexion.

I think when portraying a real person their race should be respected, which is usually the case in things made nowadays, particularly where the figures portrayed are not white.

Fictional characters are different, but when it's a real historical figure I do think it should be adhered to as much as possible.

Isn't it a bit insulting to try and present it as though black people were fully accepted and integrated into Tudor England, no problems.
Doesn't that kind of erase and minimise the fight for equality.
Personally, I would be interested in having the stories of Mary Seacole, Walter Tull and Harriet Tubman televised, rather than yet another Tudors programme.
History is full of the stories of rich white men because those are the stories we keep retelling. It'd be great to have some me stories in the mainstream for a change.

I agree that the Tudor obsession, especially with old coppernose and his six wives, is a bit tedious.

[quote brondary]No not indentured servants. A proper history site explains this. Better to read these sites rather than populist sites.

www.medievalists.net/2019/02/elen-more-the-moorish-lass-in-james-ivs-court/[/quote]
There is nothing in there about her being a slave, rather "one of Margaret Tudor’s maids and a favourite of the royal household, for she was pampered with costly clothes."

@babbaloushka it specifically says "The Bartons had a letter of Marque that legitimized their pirating Portuguese ships, which were often loaded with human cargo from West Africa. People like Petir More were brought into Scotland, in other words, as booties." And says Margaret and Ellen probably came over in the same way.

Yes she was probably brought over as a slave. There were "pampered" slaves. She was an "exotic" trophy.

Ben Kingsley is mixed race. His father is Indian.

@BilboBercow

Ben Kingsley is mixed race. His father is Indian.

Born Krishna Pandit Bhanji in Yorkshire, to an English mother and a Gujariti (by way of Kenya) father.

She could also be seen as a prisoner of war, not free to be her own person, but also not exploited for someone else's financial gain.

I can't be a racist because I have mixed race children but......(insert racist opinion) 

Can you explain where the op has been racist?

If the actor is good I don't care if it's accurate. In fact I hope one day people would be able to watch something like this and not really even notice what colour of skin the actor has. Maybe one day skin colour won't be the first thing that people notice about each other.

While I don't think it's true that she is 'widely believed' to be mixed-race, this theory certainly exists. In the context of a fictional piece I don't see why these ideas shouldn't be explored. It does also IMO allow for thought and discussion about the use of terms like ‘sallow’ – I know they were used unflatteringly, to discredit her; I think it throws an interesting light on the politics of the day and, indeed, of our own.

People can notice skin colour, it just doesn't have to matter - which is what most people mean when they say they don't see colour. I doubt anyone's saying they literally can't see different skin colours or that they're not aware that someone is of a different ethnicity. It's part of the first things you take in when looking at someone but it's not a big deal. In everyday situations, you wouldn't treat them differently from someone else.

@IntermittentParps

While I don't think it's true that she is 'widely believed' to be mixed-race, this theory certainly exists. In the context of a fictional piece I don't see why these ideas shouldn't be explored. It does also IMO allow for thought and discussion about the use of terms like ‘sallow’ – I know they were used unflatteringly, to discredit her; I think it throws an interesting light on the politics of the day and, indeed, of our own.

What reputable Tudor historian posits the theory that Anne was 'mixed race'? I've read quite widely on the period and have never heard that. She came from upper class families on both sides, so her lineage is quite well documented. Who is the alleged non-white ancestor?

It's well-known that Anne had dark hair and possibly 'sallow' skin. In an age when beauty was synonymous with having porcelain skin and blonde hair - hence the word 'fair' being used to mean both 'light skinned' and 'beautiful' - this might have been held against her. But there is no indication that she was 'mixed race', at least not that I've heard of.

@IreallydontknowImtired

People can notice skin colour, it just doesn't have to matter - which is what most people mean when they say they don't see colour. I doubt anyone's saying they literally can't see different skin colours or that they're not aware that someone is of a different ethnicity. It's part of the first things you take in when looking at someone but it's not a big deal. In everyday situations, you wouldn't treat them differently from someone else.

So if it's not a big deal, why cast Anne Boleyn as a black woman when we know that she wasn't?

That is introducing a major element to a historical person that just wasn't there. There is no way in a million years that a C16th European monarch would have married a black person. Being white mattered hugely, just as being upper class mattered hugely.

When you write "in everyday situations, you wouldn't treat them differently from someone else" you seem to be ignoring that racism exists. it did then , it does now. (At least we have a word for it now, a critique of it.)

To make a drama in which a black person in the sixteenth century is put on an equal footing with powerful white people is fundamentally dishonest.

I wasn't writing about Anne Boleyn and Jodie Turner-Smith. I was actually responding to the second post above mine. I don't agree with JTS as a historically white figure but less because of historical accuracy (really don't care - the film has been done to death. Everyone and their dog knows who AB is) but more about what a dark-skinned Black woman represents in the film. Of all the historical figures to shoe-horn her in, it's Anne Boleyn. Some posters have written this in detail.

You seem to be ignoring that racism exists
Lol...Believe you me, I KNOW racism exists. You, on the other hand, may be displaying bias right there.

I don't see colour doesn't automatically mean I don't think racism exists and the other points I wrote. People take that and run with it without context like someone has said the worst thing in the world.

@IcedPurple

If you're distracted by someone's appearance whilst they're acting, then they are a rubbish actor is the problem.

Where do you draw the line?

A male playing a female role?

A 50 year old playing a 15 year old?

If appearance doesn't matter, why not?

Many teenage characters are played by those much older than the age they portray.

@FrippEnos and I am distracted by that.

Why should Jodie Turner-Smith as a well respected actress only be eligible to play roles that match her own ethnicity?

Given the incredibly limited number of lead female characters that are written as women of colour, that would severely limit her career choices.

If you can't see that there are genuine reasons why colour blind casting is a good and fair idea then I despair.

Any dramatisation of AB will be riddled with historical inaccuracies. If you object to this, maybe ask yourself why the colour of her skin matters so much to you?

Many teenage characters are played by those much older than the age they portray.

This is for legal reasons as there are a lot of restrictions on employing teenagers. I wouldn't say it's usually 'much older' though. Usually 10 years tops.

Why should Jodie Turner-Smith as a well respected actress only be eligible to play roles that match her own ethnicity?

Do you apply that to well-respected white actors? Logically, you must.

And as has been said above, in acting it's OK to cast based on physical characteristics. If a character is described as tall and stunningly beautiful, it would be odd to cast a short, plain actor in the role, and nobody would complain that this was discrimination. If a character was an elderly man, nobody would expect to see a young man in the role.

Given the incredibly limited number of lead female characters that are written as women of colour, that would severely limit her career choices.

That's an argument for having roles where colour doesn't matter - which is the vast majority of roles - open to actors of all ethnicities. It's not an argument for pretending that racism didn't exist in the Tudor era or asking the audience to believe that it would have been considered perfectly normal for a king of England to marry a black woman.

Most roles should be cast colour blind. But not where ethnicity is part of the story or where characters are representing real people.
Anyway it has got lots of publicity for the producers of this drama, probably all they were seeking anyway.

@RunningFromInsanity

Someone will come along and say ‘why not’ but it’s widely known Anne Boleyn was white. They are just trying too hard to be ‘pc’.

There is uproar when white people play ethnic characters.

But it’s racist to say these things.

Does anyone know what colour the background actors are? I think it would be ok if there's other black characters but just one- and the main one at that- is just dumb. How do they account for that in the plot?

If they want to be inclusive of black actors just make more series for black actors rather than shoehorning black actors into roles where it don't really make sense, I think.

This isn't true representation it's literally just a token black character (if she's the only one)

Make a drama about Harriet Tubman. I would watch that.

I think colour blind casting in this context is just plain silly. I can't get worked up about it but it does make me shake my head and roll my eyes. The thing is, it only works because none of us have many strong pictures of Anne Boleyn in mind.
If they had cast a black actor to play someone like Hitler, who everyone knows exactly what he looked like from countless photos, we would realise that it doesn't work. Actors do need to look like the people they are supposed to represent - they need to be the same sex and race as well as approximately a similar age, height and weight and share similar facial features. Being a good actor just isn't enough.