Anne Boleyn as a black woman

[Frustratedbeyondbelief]

Am anyone explain why ? I know this question raises the issue of race which is highly controversial. It is not meant to be goady.. just perplexed by what they are trying to achieve. To me like playing GHandi and Martin Luther King as while men..

For context I hope my non racial credentials as a mother of mixed race children assist in not seeing this as an 'anti black' thread ... I genuinely would like to be educated as to why this is thought to be a 'good thing' when simply factually incorrect . ? Her home at Hever is less than a mile away, I have never had any idea she was black or mixed race. Just seems a bit 'trendy' ...

I’ve heard that Lily James is set to play Michelle Obama in an upcoming biopic

On the question of black women at court, didn't Sir Thomas More describe some of Catherine of Aragon's retinue as "pygmy Ethiopians"?

I'm just going to mention Six here, which works very well casting black or mixed race actresses for some of the Queens, because a) it definitely isn't supposed to be real and b) three of the songs are inspired by/parodies of black or mixed race singers.

Do you all just want white women. Noted.

As long as creative interpretation applies equally in all cases, I'm fine with it. That means the best actor or actress for the job. What isn't fine is if it isn't equally applied.

@CorianderBee

Do you all just want white women. Noted.

I would like a white woman to play a well known historical white woman, in the same way I would want a black woman to play a well known historical black woman.

And I would also much rather see a drama about a historical black woman than another rehash of the story of Anne Boleyn.

And I would also much rather see a drama about a historical black woman than another rehash of the story of Anne Boleyn.

This is a major sticking point for me too. Casting black women to tell the story of white women suggests that either there are no stories of black women or that they aren't worth telling.

If the TV company wanted to do something meaningful about representation they'd commission a drama about an historical black woman. How about a historical epic set against the backdrop of the Crimean War with Mary Seacole as the main character?

Just raking back over Henry's wives but casting a black woman is cheaper and easier. It's not pushing for diversity and inclusion, it's lazy collection of woke points.

'How about a historical epic set against the backdrop of the Crimean War with Mary Seacole as the main character? '
That would be a very watchable concept. Mary Seacole is such an interesting multi-faceted character. Would love to see that. I agree with you point generally.

The Anne Boleyn casting doesn't bother me, but I can understand that some might find it hypocritical according to current values.

I think the UK media / entertainment industry is lately doing really well with diversity of black and Asian actors, characters and presenters. There are black and Asian leads in various cop shows and dramas, actual ethnic lives representation in soaps (rather than acting as if white), comedy's that reflect black and Asian cultures. Not looked at percentages according to population but I heard it's reflective.

I think Lenny Henry said it's more the production / behind the scenes side where there is less representation now, which is changing with 'initiative' and will also naturally change as people with power / a voice give work to family and friends, as it always was.

[quote TheWeeDonkeyIsMySpiritAnimal]@Faithless12 the cartoon character actors acted exactly as I said upthread. Both Jenny Slate and the guy from The Simpson's gave themselves a public flogging and prostrated themselves at the feet of the woke on Twitter. I'm not sure that makes the point you think it does. [/quote]
After years in some cases of 'playing' the characters, racism and the issues of whitewashing aren't new. They've been known for years, the first article I posted was published in 2016 and the only year in that hasn't had a white actor playing a character of a different race was last year; as last year wasn't exactly a productive year I'm not willing to bet that it won't happen this year or even next year. It isn't as frequent but your point was that it wouldn't happen the other way but it still is.

Do you all just want white women. Noted.

No. We don’t all just white women actually. How dare you be so sweeping?

Read SirSamuel’s post

This is a major sticking point for me too. Casting black women to tell the story of white women suggests that either there are no stories of black women or that they aren't worth telling.

This is what the problem is.

@Serpenta indeed 🤣

@GrumpyHoonMain

She is widely believed to be mixed race. Her skin, as described by her physician, was ‘mulatto’ and ‘sallow’ was used a lot too - both of those words were used for mixed race people in those days.

Black people were in the UK in Elizabethan times and had jobs and businesses since the Middle Ages. St George is also another mixed race person which is totally ironic considering how many English racists fly his flag.

To ad to that wasn't Jesus always portrayed by white man but not described as one in the bible and other religious texts. There has been much whitewashing of historical texts and images but slowly some revelations are coming to light.

But there was 1500 years between the birth of Christ and the birth of Anne Boleyn. There's much more scope for inaccurate portrayals, because there isn't anywhere near as much contemporary evidence. Artists drew him as they imagined him, because they could only read about him — they didn't see him.

Anne Boleyn was born to a family with a good pedigree in a time where a lot of emphasis was put on bloodlines — people married to make alliances. Her whole family tree is known, recorded and most are painted, with surviving portraits.

Actually, I think I'm wrong about most being painted and having surviving portraits, but there are enough of the family to have an idea of what they looked like.

Plus you could make the argument that in the case of Jesus, son of God, character from the Bible (written many years after his life by many authors) you are portraying a fictional character more than you are portraying a real person.

@PolkadotsAndMoonbeams

Actually, I think I'm wrong about most being painted and having surviving portraits, but there are enough of the family to have an idea of what they looked like.

Iirc there is an image of Anne created in her lifetime for a coin or similar? I'll see if I can find the link...

Iced, What reputable Tudor historian posits the theory that Anne was 'mixed race'? I didn't say 'reputable Tudor historian', I just said the theory exists.

I stand by my assertion that creative casting can open up interesting and thought-provoking discussion, and that this is a perfectly legitimate approach in the context of a fictional piece.

The Moste Happy coin.

www.theanneboleynfiles.com/anne-boleyn-portraits-which-is-the-true-face-of-anne-boleyn/?v=11aedd0e4327

She is widely believed to be mixed race. Her skin, as described by her physician, was ‘mulatto’ and ‘sallow’ was used a lot too - both of those words were used for mixed race people in those days.

More likely she was a bit tanned from having grown up in France and so did not have the pasty white English Rose look.

I would also much rather see a drama about a historical black woman

Good point. There must be mileage in a fantastic tv production about African dynasties & monarchies, unfamiliar to the west stories, just waiting to be developed.

In reply to Lottiethelemming, I absolutely agree with all you say. I have also had enough of all this from the minority woke crowd, and you are right, they will create more racism. I signed up to this site just to finally have my say and back you up, now I’m closing my account because I don’t do this or social media normally. I just needed to say I’m sick to death of it all. I’m white by the way, and I’m not racist and I don’t mind if people say I’m white. Why is it offensive to say someone is black? What is wrong with it? So we are different colours, so what? We are all the same inside. Try to learn to live together, be open minded, accept cultural differences and be proud of who you are. Anne Boleyn was white, nothing against the actress but I just can’t watch it because it’s ridiculous.

@donquixotedelamancha

I would object to a tall actor playing Napoleon. The fact he is short is important to his character.

Except he wasn't short, it's a myth created by British propaganda.

Yes Napoleon was average height for the time.

@Atalantea

So let's make and watch dramatisations about actual historical black figures instead of yet another programme/film about the fucking Tudors.

THIS!!! oh my god! why are we so bloody obsessed with the sodding Tudors?

Don't worry. Uk and Hollywood will make another slave related movie full of black people.

The OP saying she's a mother to mixed kids as a reason to absolve her of shocking ignorance. Procreation with black people does not make you not racist. Get a clue OP. Ugh!

I don’t see the problem - it’s fiction, not documentary. If the actress is good, it won’t matter in the slightest.

AB’s whiteness isn’t integral to her story so not portraying that aspect of her appearance is a non-issue.

Claire Foy was magnificent as AB in Wolf Hall. Claire has blue eyes, AB’s were famously dark. Should we have shouted about that?