It's a Sin, 9 pm Channel 4, 22nd Jan CONTAINS SPOILERS **titled edited by MNHQ**

[notawittyname1954]

I keep seeing trailers for this. Anyone else looking forward to it?

[quote notawittyname1954]@BagelsandBrie

I agree the guy despised that aspect of himself and almost seemed like he was taking his disgust with himself out on Colin but I also think he despised Colin too.[/quote]
It’s interesting how we all have so many feelings and views about this show isn’t it. It is such an amazing piece of art.

@BagelsandBrie A very important series I think

[quote HomeschooIerRockthemicrophone]www.rainbow-project.org/internalised-homophobia[/quote]
Alexander puts it well.

You would probably like the book straight jacket.

I think it is open to interpretation - Colin states at the dinner table he will be in, how he will always be in on Thursday nights, with a meaningful look at Ross. Having just returned to that scene - it's made clear that although Ross doesn't seem pleasant ('shut up you little bender'); Colin is enjoying the sex hence the moaning and not a victim. It raises the issue of why he chose to leave but doesn't mean that he wasn't empowered/allowed to enjoy a bit of rough/meaningless sex.
The mother (again) is clearly the problem ('my son is a normal man; he's not one of those filthy, dirty queers').

I think in five hours RTD covered an awful lot of territory and the spectrum of attitudes he'd come across, including lived experience of his friends and Jill: certainly, either Colin's demise or the Keeley Hawes storyline which had jarred for me slightly, I think actually happened (but he has waited 30 years to tell it).

@SimonJT
That hits a nail on the head for me, especially about being a gift in disguise.
For instance, I have no idea who I am. Every day I am a different person, I'm never happy or at ease with myself, probably because I've never had to lie to people, and have to work out what's me and what isn't.
That fella is awesome.
Can I keep him?!

@HomeSchoolerRockthemicrophone

There are many recorded interviews with Olly Alexander where he has expressed having mental health issues and feeling ashamed when he was younger because he didn't want to be gay.

Thanks Simon - Just found it on kindle - 4.99. Will take a look at it now.

www.amazon.co.uk/Straight-Jacket-Matthew-Todd/dp/0593069781?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

I just finished this and found it completely heartbreaking.

I did think the saintly characterisation of Jill was too good to be true. She even wrote Christmas cards on behalf of the men which I always think of as the ultimate in "wifework".

The keeley Hawes moment at the waterfront left me speechless and I was moved by the ballet scene, and the scene with the agent giving them the money. Also the other mother with the squash- I felt the dad got let off the hook a bit there, no one interrogated him on why he had never realised but he was just as responsible or for the "loveless" home as the mother.

The the poster who talked about poor Colin being receptive - excuse my naivety but do gay men generally stick to being one or the other? I have wondered how this gets decided! I've also read an interview with Stephen dry before where he has said most gay men don't have penetrative sex, which I didn't know until then. I learned a lot from it's a sin - had no idea re the neurological effects of the virus.

@satishoused Ritchie's dad seemed to go from domineering to crumbling and his mum became the dominant one.

La! I'm only 2 episodes in but I'm loving this show, it's extraordinary how upbeat it can feel one moment and how devastatingly sad the next. (I know it's set to get much sadder, having read some spoilers.) I'm bi and used to go out on the gay scene a lot in my late teens and early 20s, so the night life scenes are evocative for me too.

Also as someone who's now in my fifties I'd forgotten quite how much casual homophobia and racism were around back then, and how uninformed most of us were about the nature of AIDS and how it spreads. Russell T is an awesome writer and the cast are just brilliant.

As far as I know, you're a 'top', a 'bottom' or 'versatile' (switch between) depending on personal preference but as you point out yourself, not all gay couples do anal whereas some straight couples do.

@satishoused

The the poster who talked about poor Colin being receptive - excuse my naivety but do gay men generally stick to being one or the other? I have wondered how this gets decided! I've also read an interview with Stephen dry before where he has said most gay men don't have penetrative sex, which I didn't know until then. I learned a lot from it's a sin - had no idea re the neurological effects of the virus.

No not usually, studies have shown around 1/3 of us have penetrative sex on a regular basis, 1/3 as a treat/special occasion and 1/3 never.

Stephen dry before where he has said most gay men don't have penetrative sex

Brilliant 😏

It's interesting what Alexander says about self-discovery/self awareness Simon; that some cis/hets never get there.
Russell T Davies said something similar: What about casting gay actors in straight roles? “I don’t mind doing that. Gay people are taught how to be straight from their first sexual instinct at eight years old. We look around and fit in with a straight world. Nobody’s better at studying straight people than we are. Straight people don’t know themselves; gay people do.”
What does knowing yourself really mean?
I know what I like, what I don't, what I'll put up with, what I won't. But like many, aren't we all faking it til we make it most of the time?! Women suffer more from Imposter Syndrome than men - to a large extent, we're all trying to fit in, putting on a front, acting as we're supposedly meant to...although I have seen how, faced with heteronormativity all around, teens are forced into that more. Not just sexual preference or gender identity either - most kids are faced with peer pressure to fit in, in all aspects, rather than just letting their freak flag fly. Also interesting that RTD says 8. My own son is that age. I have always said to all mine they can be who they are, do what they like, wear what they want, love who they want as long as they aren't hurting or being hurt by anyone and have enthusiastic consent or are enthusiastically consenting. In Holland, they do sex ed from very early on and I think that model is the way to go to avoid embarrassment talking with your mum (!) repression, shame or stigma. Or it could be I am just a very old, woke, wannabe hippy. Either way, I have great kids, who hopefully won't go through any of that shit (she hopes).

This was a very good night, but more importantly a short but important (and slightly drunk) message.

[quote notawittyname1954]@BagelsandBrie

I agree the guy despised that aspect of himself and almost seemed like he was taking his disgust with himself out on Colin but I also think he despised Colin too.[/quote]
I think the relationship was quite coercive too. He didn't look like he was enjoying it. That's why he moved in with the others on impulse and got away only to live with unrequited love for Ritchie.

I think there is probably a lot more to Jill than could have been fitted into 5 episodes but I'm sure that was included was true given that the real Jill was in the cast.

He seems such a nice guy. He is Ritchie isn't he. I wonder what the actor who played Colin is like. I loved his geeky quiet character, be funny if he was the complete opposite irl.

Interesting that Alexander mentioned trans, I've often wondered if trans men and women are widely accepted in the gay community.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

He seems such a nice guy. He is Ritchie isn't he. I wonder what the actor who played Colin is like. I loved his geeky quiet character, be funny if he was the complete opposite irl.

Interesting that Alexander mentioned trans, I've often wondered if trans men and women are widely accepted in the gay community.

This is what he’s really like, ultimate awkward geek.

@notawittyname1954

Just wanted to say thanks everyone, I started a thread about a tv programme and it has turned into so much more. I have learned a lot. What a great show if it has brought out all this discussion and thoughts and awareness.

I think that this was the intention when It's a Sin aired. There's been so much discussion everywhere on the news (BBC Breakfast this morning had THT's CEO Ian Green talking about it), in papers and on SM. Your starting a thread has been another way of discussing it and anything related to it OP - plus easier to ask questions and get answers on here.

It's also timed for HIV testing week this week: www.hivpreventionengland.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/NHTW-2021-Campaign-Briefing.pdf

Great links upthread @HomeschooIerRockthemicrophone - thanks. Learning the science and the facts is important.

It's been SO, SO good in many ways. Not just the story, the acting, the sound track - but the history, the insight, the discussions it's sparked. Amazing.

Finished the whole thing and can't stop thinking about it. Brilliant, sad, important television.

I echo the pp who recommended the book 'How To Survive A Plague,' a non fiction account of the start of the AIDS breakout in NYC.

I,m 47 so I remember the tomb stone ,don't die of ignorance adverts very well I don't think the Government at the time handled it particularly well ,with the benefit of hindsight I wonder what they could have done rather than terrifying everyone?

@x2boys

I,m 47 so I remember the tomb stone ,don't die of ignorance adverts very well I don't think the Government at the time handled it particularly well ,with the benefit of hindsight I wonder what they could have done rather than terrifying everyone?

I think that campaign was one of the things they got right, hard hitting and dismissive of the myth that only gay men could contract HIV