Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Telly addicts

The Crown Series 4

781 replies

Housewife2010 · 14/10/2020 09:21

Anyone else getting excited? The Diana trailer looks great. It's on Netflix on 15th November.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Maireas · 24/11/2020 17:41

Yes, but it wasn't atypical. I have a friend who is in her 60s and only found out recently that she had a brother with Downs Syndrome. He was instutionalised and forgotten about, never referred to. I'm not a fan of the Royals, but it would be incorrect to judge them by standards not common at the time.

goodbyestranger · 24/11/2020 17:45

The Queen was also 15 at that time, had she never met or heard about her cousins of a similar age?

There was only about nine weeks age difference between the Queen and her first cousin so it's not credible that she wasn't aware.

On the money front it's shocking that none was given to the cousins and equally terrible that no member of their family ever sent a card or attended their funerals.

longwayoff · 24/11/2020 18:22

Well. Hurrah for the NHS said the royals, that's a few quid saved. Bye kids.

TheCrowsHaveEyes · 24/11/2020 20:14

Considering Wikipedia quotes a novel as a source of information, I'm not sure how accurate their information is. Hmm There's no doubt the cousins lived most of their lives in care but it wasn't the RF who put them there or who listed their deaths in Burke's Peerage. And the other cousins who lived in the same institution weren't listed as dead so it seems unlikely it was a conspiracy of silence. If it was, it was an incompetent one.

StartupRepair · 24/11/2020 20:16

Just finished episode 4. Still not on board with Olivia Colman. She plays the Queen as sort of oblivious where Claire Foy plays her as reserved but with a strong inner world.

HeyGirlHeyBoy · 24/11/2020 21:00

Why was the Michael Fagin story so bad? I'm not clued in on that at all.

VanGoghsDog · 24/11/2020 21:01

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

Why was the Michael Fagin story so bad? I'm not clued in on that at all.
It wasn't. It was just a slightly odd event for them to choose. I enjoyed it.
VanGoghsDog · 24/11/2020 21:07

@goodbyestranger

The Queen was also 15 at that time, had she never met or heard about her cousins of a similar age?

There was only about nine weeks age difference between the Queen and her first cousin so it's not credible that she wasn't aware.

On the money front it's shocking that none was given to the cousins and equally terrible that no member of their family ever sent a card or attended their funerals.

Not that odd.

My dad had a cousin who was more or less the same age as him, the son and only child of his own mother's identical twin, who he had never met but did know was in an institution.

When the cousin's mother died, the father having died several years earlier, my nan visited a bit. But when my nan went into a home my dad never picked up and visited. We actually have no idea if he's still alive, we don't know what home he was in nor his full name.

I've no idea what was "wrong" with him or if it was/is life limiting. My mum did say something about the family not wanting to get involved in case they had to start paying for his care.

He'd be in his eighties now.

StartupRepair · 24/11/2020 21:15

The Queen had lots of BowesLyon cousins as the QM was one of many siblings.

goodbyestranger · 24/11/2020 22:23

Vangoghsdog the point the previous poster made and I seconded was the fact that the Queen must have been aware. Your account of your father and his cousin doesn't conflict in any way with that.

LimaFoxtrotCharlie · 24/11/2020 22:28

@longwayoff

Well. Hurrah for the NHS said the royals, that's a few quid saved. Bye kids.
The sisters were placed in the institution in 1941. The NHS began in 1948.
longwayoff · 24/11/2020 22:28

Can I be the only person with a raft of cousins I've never met and never will? I thought this was quite common.

longwayoff · 24/11/2020 22:29

Quite. Your point is?

VanGoghsDog · 24/11/2020 22:44

@goodbyestranger

Vangoghsdog the point the previous poster made and I seconded was the fact that the Queen must have been aware. Your account of your father and his cousin doesn't conflict in any way with that.
Yeah, it does - dad knew of his existence, but not his name or where he was. I don't think he'd ever meg him. I don't think my dad's brother knew, because my cousins didn't know (I spoke to them about it recently). And my dad's mum was one of thirteen so I doubt very much all the siblings knew about their nephew. We didn't even know all of them!
derxa · 24/11/2020 22:46

@StartupRepair

Just finished episode 4. Still not on board with Olivia Colman. She plays the Queen as sort of oblivious where Claire Foy plays her as reserved but with a strong inner world.
May I just say I think OC is quite dreadful in this role. Shocking actually. And imagine taking money for portraying false stories about people who are very much still alive.
VanGoghsDog · 24/11/2020 22:47

@longwayoff

Can I be the only person with a raft of cousins I've never met and never will? I thought this was quite common.
I've got two I've never met, one I don't know the name of.

My mum doesn't know any of hers and my dad no way knew all of his - he had sixteen direct aunts and uncles. So, 32 if they all married and once (I know at least two married twice, one died quite young, one never married but had a very close same sex friend, etc).

TheCrowsHaveEyes · 24/11/2020 23:31

My DM and DF both had cousins they'd never met. I have cousins I've never met. I also have a cousin I knew as a child who moved away. I have no idea where they are now. It's fairly common in large families.

peonia · 24/11/2020 23:44

But this is a family that relies on their bloodline to hold the throne and the authority, wealth and privilege that comes with it! Even though the cousins were from the mother's side and so not in the line of succession, people would be interested in them.

Just looking at more details on the family and the Queen is godmother to Katherine Somervell (born 23 August 1961) daughter of Diana Bowes-Lyon and niece of Narissa and Katherine. So there was a close relationship to that branch of the family.

I just don't buy that they didn't know.

TheCrowsHaveEyes · 25/11/2020 00:10

I'm not saying they definitely didn't know but it is possible to lose track of cousins as myself and PPs have shown.

What I am saying is that the RF were not next of kin and had no legal right to make any decisions about their cousins' care or paperwork.
The entire Margaret part of the storyline was fictional. The episode didn't expand into a wider political critique of care homes or how Thatcher's policies impacted. It was a cynical, mawkish attempt to utilise RL people with learning difficulties/ developmental delay to create a negative impression of the RF.

The 80s had bombings, the miners' strike, the poll tax protests, the care homes scandal. . . all missed to spend an episode creating an imaginary family scandal and linking it to Margaret worrying about her own MH. It's exploitative and shoddy.

If they had wanted to focus on the story of the cousins, they could have covered when the story broke in the newspapers in the 1980s. At that time, Burke's Peerage said papers were left blank which they assumed meant the cousins had died so the error was their's and the head of the home said the cousin's family had visited for the first 20 years until those relatives died. However that story isn't as sensationalist as the one The Crown created.

TheCrowsHaveEyes · 25/11/2020 00:12

Obviously the poll tax protests were 1990 but would still have been in the scope of this series.

jessstan1 · 25/11/2020 00:25

@peonia

But this is a family that relies on their bloodline to hold the throne and the authority, wealth and privilege that comes with it! Even though the cousins were from the mother's side and so not in the line of succession, people would be interested in them.

Just looking at more details on the family and the Queen is godmother to Katherine Somervell (born 23 August 1961) daughter of Diana Bowes-Lyon and niece of Narissa and Katherine. So there was a close relationship to that branch of the family.

I just don't buy that they didn't know.

The Queen Mother knew, the cousins were her brother's children. Nobody else in the royal family (and don't forget she wasn't in the royal family until she married the Duke of York), would have known about them unless she chose to tell them. They would have been her age or older - she was the youngest of ten. Princess Margaret found out which is what brought it all to light but her mother didn't volunteer the information. People didn't talk about such things in those days. She may have thought they were dead, they had siblings who died young and their mother wasn't that old when she died.

It was a sad business but, as has been said, a not unusual one at that time.

I had an uncle who went into a home, I never knew him and he died at 26, long before I arrived on the scene. I doubt it would happen nowadays. People live in sheltered or assisted accommodation if they can; in days gone by they were put in an asylum. The type of asylum depended on what the family could afford.

The actor, Brian Rix, had a daughter with Down's Syndrome and the actress, Valerie Hobson, had a son with the same. Both spent their lives in care homes. President Kennedy had a sister in a home, she had a lobotomy! Times have changed, thank goodness.

Readandwalk · 25/11/2020 02:09

No excusing not putting all the money granted through nepotism into the system. We all have some one in an institution in the recent past. We dont all have millions in the bank through an anachronism by birthright. The very very least they could have done is fund the hospital. Or at least acknowledged their own. Which they didn't. Shabby behaviour. Remember how rich these people are from nothing. By being born. Just that. Shameless fuckers.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 25/11/2020 02:25

It wasn't. It was just a slightly odd event for them to choose. I enjoyed it

I didn't think it was an odd choice at all. They'd just featured Lord Mountbatten being blown to smithereens by Irish republicans. The fact that a random unemployed man could simply wander into the Monarch's private quarters, twice, had huge potential ramifications given the politics of the era, and that the IRA had made no secret of the fact they considered the UK's Monarch a priority target.

I also think it was a useful device to show exactly how some of Thatcher's policies were taking a toll on already underprivileged and downtrodden sections of society.

MissEliza · 25/11/2020 07:14

Obviously the Fagan episode was to show the divisiveness of Thatcher's policies. However, he is a real person who is still alive and it's completely unfair to twist his character to suit someone's agenda. I believe he's not happy about it.

Oreservoir · 25/11/2020 07:23

My db has an ex gf whose uncle was put into a home because he had severe epilepsy. The gf's df didn't know his db existed until his own parents died.

One of the QM's cousins became a Catholic priest and was ostracized by the
Bowes Lyons. My fathers claim to fame is he was baptized by this priest!