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Telly addicts

Buffy the vampire slayer back on tv

255 replies

Bunnymumy · 10/06/2020 21:06

E4 have been showing it in the evenings and you can watch all the seasons online on their catch up.

Oh the nostalgia.

I forgot how much I shipped Xander and willow!
Also, it really makes me wish I had friendhips like buffy does.

Who did you guys ship?
Oh and Angel, Spike or Reilly for buffy?
I'm team spike lol.

I think drewcilla was my favourite character of all, think she is just a great female villain.

OP posts:
AnnieWay · 14/07/2020 23:31

I binged the entire thing a couple of weeks ago & kept thinking I should come on MN to chat about it - here you all are! Grin

I love seasons 1-3 & 6. Loathe any scene where Riley talks. Tara's just bland - my favourite thing about her is her death storyline, but perhaps that's at least in part because she's not in it! I adore dark Willow, her battle with Giles, Anya round the corner muttering the barrier spell to protect J&A, Xander & the yellow crayon...

I found this time round that I liked Anya a lot more. As a teen I saw her behaviour as weird & against social norms which must be obeyed at all times... As a slightly more self-aware adult, I can see that what irritated me about her was how like me she is, except she lacks the filter I have to maintain to be socially acceptable. I didn't like her because I was jealous of how everyone accepted her asking for explanations about how to behave & how she was able to be blunt & it was ok because she was newly human. It was v interesting though in the flashbacks that she was also seen as odd & socially awkward in her pre-demon days. I hated Xander for leaving her the way he did & I was even more upset that they killed her off & they didn't get their happy ending, although Xander really needed therapy to deal with his issues about his parents' relationship!

I was very definitely team Spike as a teen, but now I just see it all as a bit creepy. Not only did he try to rape her but he also actively pursued her when she wasn't interested, encouraged her to talk to him when she was vulnerable & then took advantage of her isolation from her friends to push his way in. Don't get me wrong, she wasn't exactly angelic in her treatment of him & I can see how the rape thing unfolded - she frequently told him she wasn't interested but then came onto him or gave in when he pushed so I can see how he might've thought that it was the same "no but yes" thing. There came a point where she was very clearly saying no though & there's no excuse for him continuing after that.

I liked him even less after he got a soul though. He was never what she wanted & he never could be, soul or not. If he truly wanted to atone for trying to rape her he should've just left her alone. I think it was the lack of guilt that bothered me the most. In Angel's flashbacks we saw him absolutely destroyed by the guilt of what he'd done, Spike came back & seemed to have gone mad but that was only because The First was making him see things. Once he was out of the school basement he recovered his sanity & carried on as before, even to the point of pretending he was going to kill the principal who was unbelievably hot & had the potential to be a good partner for Buffy. I'd have liked to see a bit more self-reflection from Spike & a bit more brooding. It just felt like the soul didn't really change him that much, whereas he was a total mama's boy before he was turned. It always bothered me that neither Spike nor Angel turned back into a recognisable version of their former selves when they got their souls back. You'd have thought the drunken lout would've coped better with the things he did than the sappy poet.

Other issues I have centre around the whole slayer thing - Kendra said she was given to her watcher at a young age because it's a big deal for her people, yet Buffy knew nothing about it until she was, what, 15? How come Kendra's family knew & Buffy's didn't? Did the families of the potentials know? If not, why were they happy for their teenage daughters to move to Sunnydale & live with strangers? If some random English man turned up on my doorstep & insisted he needed to take my teenager to America because she was in danger from the first evil, I'd have at least insisted on going with her! Surely there's a safeguarding issue here...

In S7 the council are trying to track down all the potentials - some of them talk about having watchers beforehand but others are oblivious of their calling until they're brought to Sunnydale. If they did have watchers, why weren't they better trained already if they could've been the next slayer? Why did the council know about some & not others? How many more were there that hadn't been killed or brought to Sunnydale? How come the council/coven/Giles could suddenly track down more when they hadn't found them already? What happened if a potential became a slayer & the council didn't know about her? Would she just suddenly be inexplicably fast/strong & be in the Olympics before she was tracked down?!

Who was the slayer before Buffy? How did she die? Who was her watcher? What about Buffy's LA watcher, why did she get a new one when she moved? Would it not have made more sense for her watcher to move too?

How come all the potentials were teenage girls? At the end when every potential was imbued with slayer powers they showed young girls so how come they weren't brought to Sunnydale to be protected, or did the Bringers have an age limit? "Oh, we'll only kill the teenagers, don't hurt the babies..." Hmm

Also, they kept going on about "one of us will be the next slayer when Buffy dies" - Faith was the "official" slayer at that point, hence why none of them were called up when Buffy died the second time. I still don't understand why the Council wouldn't have quietly let Faith "die from her injuries" instead of keeping her in a coma. They knew she was a loose cannon & would be a liability if she woke up. They also knew that if Buffy died there'd be no slayer, surely killing Faith would've been "for the greater good", especially when Buffy did die & they didn't know that Willow would bring her back.

I'm totally willing to overlook all inconsistencies & unanswered questions for a programme that has episodes like Band Candy & OMWF. I really want to binge it all again now! DH wouldn't be so keen - I get rather lost in it & it's all I can think about... I need to live real life for a while!

swimkiwipanda · 15/07/2020 00:08

Really interesting post @AnnieWay. I have a feeling this isn't my last binge...give it another decade and I will be rewatching.

In Season 5, not really found any episodes that stand out yet. I like the fact that being at college has been totally eclipsed by the magic shop etc.

QueenCT · 15/07/2020 01:16

It's been my comfort TV for SO long. I watched it as a teenager, with my dad who grumbled about "bloody Buffy" but seemed to always remember when it was on, sat glued to it and bought me the DVD box set
It's a bit like that meme about coconut oil..
Upset? Buffy
Heartbroken? Buffy
Angry? Buffy
8 week spinal surgery recovery? Buffy. And Angel
Nothing on TV? Buffy
Grin

Minai · 15/07/2020 14:23

I watched the odd episode when it was on the first time around but never followed it properly. DH and I have been watching it for a few weeks now and we are loving it! I don’t remember any of these episodes so I think I must have watched the later ones.

Straycatblue · 16/07/2020 23:02

I love Buffy ......but Buffy & Spike, not Angel or Reilly.

I remember seeing Xander/Nicholas Brendan during his stint in Criminal Minds and being shocked at how he had changed.

I also didnt realise on the first watch that Nicholas Brendan has an identical twin and in the episode where there are two Zanders, its him and his twin brother playing the roles and not him playing both roles.

Spike has some of the funniest lines,

swimkiwipanda · 17/07/2020 01:54

James Marsters is a briliant actor. I am still resisting him. Its the peroxide hair and slightly off English accent. Why did he need these things? 😂

Just watched Buffys power speech. Love it. SMG was 18 when she was cast.

swimkiwipanda · 17/07/2020 07:09

Season 5 is quite dark. Anya gets quite good in her character. Amazing about the twins.

SomethingPunny · 17/07/2020 08:41

I don't remember which episode it was but I remember reading that Nicholas Brendan was too ill to film so they had his twin take over!

SomethingPunny · 17/07/2020 08:48

Just checked, it was Intervention in season 5

BreastedBoobilyToTheStairs · 17/07/2020 09:17

@swimkiwipanda don't resist him!  Grin

Joss Whedon apparently wanted that accent regardless of who played Spike because it embodies Spike-the-rebel-vampire so distinctly from Spike-the-'your-beauty-effulgent'-Poet

JM's accent got better as the seasons went on because Anthony Head gave him training. Anthony Head's real accent is closer to Spike's than Giles', which I always find completely baffling. JM is actually really good at accents (if you listen to the Dresden Files audiobooks he does a LOT of character voices) but the other option he gave was a Deep South drawl and it just wouldn't have worked at all for the character ('out for a walk, bitch' just wouldn't have been the same!)

The blonde hair was so he looked like a punk rocker/Billy Idol who totally stole his look from Spike! His natural colour really wouldn't have worked for the character (too normal), and we wouldn't have been able to see him called Captain Peroxide Grin He had to bleach it so frequently to avoid any roots (because vampire hair doesn't grow) that it blistered his scalp constantly and they thought James Marsters might lose all of his hair by the end of filming. Apparently he used to put packets of sweetener in the bleach to help reduce the burn.

I don't think anyone has mentioned Something Blue yet, where Willow casts the whammy on everyone accidentally and Spike and Buffy get engaged, Giles goes blind, and Xander becomes a demon magnet. No where near as good as Hush but still one of my favourite season 4 eps just for sheer ridiculousness.

BigBadVoodooHat · 17/07/2020 14:36

Spike and Buffy get engaged

We watched that episode last week - so funny. SMG & JM have great chemistry, and they both do comedy really well.

sueelleker · 17/07/2020 15:46

@AnnieWay; I know what you mean about Spike-with-a-soul. There's actually a bit in the script where Angel says something like "two weeks of sulking in the basement and he's fine".

BreastedBoobilyToTheStairs · 17/07/2020 17:14

I don't think Spike's insanity was all down to the First though. I think the First was exploiting the fact that he was already filled with self-loathing and completely broken, then playing on that to exacerbate it. It certainly contributed, but I don't think it was the only factor, and probably not the initial cause. We don't have any way of knowing what he would have done had the First not used him as it's punching bag - he might have disintegrated into self-loathing given the opportunity (it's not like he showed up at Buffy's door all 'Hi I have a soul now, yay'). My assumption is he ended up alone and away from everyone trying to deal with his pain, and then the First targeted him/drew him down to the basement. I think his quick recovery was also partially down to the fact he had a purpose when he got out of the basement.

In contrast, when Angel first got his soul he had nothing to live for. It was done to him at the peak of his Angelus days and he only really started to recover when he saw Buffy for the first time and he found something to cling to. Spike had already been doing good deeds in his own messed up way for a while thanks to the chip, had willingly suffered through torture to protect Dawn/Buffy from Glory, experienced his own screwed up version of 'love', and generally wasn't in quite as much of a psychotic place. He saw himself as becoming a better man and he had a place in the world, which is why attacking Buffy affected him so much (I do think the whole way they handled the aftermath was pretty poorly handled, but that's another discussion!). So headspace-wise, he was already in a better place as he'd been 'winding down' his evilness, as opposed to Angel who was still very much in a 'torture and kill for fun' frame of mind and shocked out of it. Then Spike got his soul back and the world was about to end and he had a choice of 'continue to be a wreck and let everyone die' or 'do what you can to try and redeem yourself by helping Buffy save the world'. Having that focus would definitely help.

I agree it seemed a bit too quick, but for the purposes of the character arc and the number of episodes available they didn't really have time to leave him a total wreck for most of the season. Plus, they'd already done the brooding self-torment thing with Angel, it would get a bit old having Spike effectively be Angel 2.0 for the last season.

I also don't think you would be recognisable as your pre-vamp self if you suddenly got your soul back. A century or two of lived experience, whether or not you were a vamp, would definitely have an impact on who you were, just by virtue of the things you'd seen, experienced, and the different eras you'd lived through. William/Liam were still along for the ride even if Spike/Angelus were the ones driving.

Alternatively, the writers didn't think about any of that, they left hundreds of plot holes, and I'm just rationalising it's because I love the show Grin

BreastedBoobilyToTheStairs · 17/07/2020 17:16

@BigBadVoodooHat

Spike and Buffy get engaged

We watched that episode last week - so funny. SMG & JM have great chemistry, and they both do comedy really well.

Absolutely! In the later seasons I really missed Buffy's quirky one liners from the earlier seasons. SMG's delivery was always excellent.
swimkiwipanda · 17/07/2020 17:45

The ad breaks on All4 are so annoying.

swimkiwipanda · 17/07/2020 21:16

Well Spike is quite the ego-maniac 😂 Just got to series 5 episode 15 that sees Buffy uninviting him after he nearly had her killed. Such a lovely guy 😂

chanelmarkle05 · 17/07/2020 21:19

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swimkiwipanda · 17/07/2020 22:07

My posts need some uplifting and homage to the excellent comedy writing and characterisation. Ah Xander, I love his solid friendship with Buffy.

Xander in a puffy suit after a pummelling from Buffy: 'I could lean' and ' you ever think that the reason you haven't found a great relationship on the hell mouth is because it's the hell mouth'.

Giles to Spike: 'There is no way to Buffy'. Swoon.

Clever ending to the robot girlfriend episode: 'things are always darkest before...' Dawn.

Ah but the very end to season 5 episode 15...and in one moment all all our hearts were ripped out.

thevassal · 17/07/2020 22:08

Annieway you can probably get most of your answers from Buffywiki or somewhere but some of are addressed in the show. I haven't had a rewatch for about six years but from what I can remember:

Basically 'finding' potentials is a bit hit/miss - I assume via some sort of spell/energy or something. The ones they do find the watchers council keep an eye on - either assigning them a watcher and training them if their parents are amenable, or just keeping an eye on them to check if they become the slayer or not. Re the potentials "If they did have watchers, why weren't they better trained already if they could've been the next slayer? " Some of them were trained, like Kennedy. It's a mix - some the watcher's council find early like Kendra, Kennedy and start to train them, others like Buffy/Amanda slip through the net until they become the slayer at which point presumably either it's very easy to track them as their magical energy becomes stronger or the watcher's council has a lot of recon/agents and soon gets to hear of a girl with super human strength.

"How come all the potentials were teenage girls?" - because that's the prophecy - one girl in all the world. It's one girl not a woman, basically it's tied up in puberty/growing up, etc this is probably why the Bringers only located potentials of a certain age - there's only a short gap, between 14-17 or whatever that potentials can become slayers, otherwise they are too young/old - I assume either it was easiest to locate potentials via whatever magical means they used when they are at their 'peak' (for lack of a better word) of potential-ness, or the Bringers had limited resources so focussed on the most immediate danger - a five year old potential isn't going to become the slayer.

I don't think they ever explain the Faith thing, though and I agree that is annoying.

Buffy's ex-watcher Merrick was killed by vampires in front of her in LA - it's in the (terrible!) film. That's why she needed a new one and is so anti-slaying in episode one.

swimkiwipanda · 17/07/2020 22:10

@BreastedBoobilyToTheStairs

I'm sure Spike will grow on me, waiting for the moment it clicks.

thevassal · 17/07/2020 22:18

@swimkiwipanda

I dreamed of Buffy last night!

Anyone notice HOW many times Giles gets knocked out 😂 Finding Xander quite hot this time!

Giles getting knocked out becomes such a trope it starts getting made fun of in series - when Cordelia tells him "How many times have you been knocked out anyway. One of these days you're gonna wake up in a coma!" Grin

Cannot believe this thread has got so far with so many references to JM's english accent but not mentioned the atrocity of DB's "irish" one - surely in the top five worst tv accents. Another unexplained Buffyverse mystery is how he kept it between 1759-1901 but (thankfully) lost it by the 1950s Grin

BigBadVoodooHat · 17/07/2020 22:32

The ad breaks on All4 are so annoying.

It's on Amazon Prime if you've got that ~ better quality pic too.

BigBadVoodooHat · 17/07/2020 22:32

The ad breaks on All4 are so annoying.

It's on Amazon Prime if you've got that ~ better quality pic too.

BigBadVoodooHat · 17/07/2020 22:33

Cannot believe this thread has got so far with so many references to JM's english accent but not mentioned the atrocity of DB's "irish" one - surely in the top five worst tv accents.

It's utterly atrocious, isn't it? I'm pretty sure DB was cast in the role entirely on the basis of what he looked like shirtless, rather than on any acting ability Grin

BigBadVoodooHat · 17/07/2020 22:36

I'm sure Spike will grow on me, waiting for the moment it clicks.

First time I watched Buffy, I didn't give Spike much thought beyond chuckling at his wise-cracks.

This time around ~ bloody hell, I'd climb him like a tree Blush