Handmaid's Tale. EPISODE 5 (season 3). Channel 4, 07/07/19. UK pace. NO SPOILERS!

[OriginofSpecies]

Nice early thread to start the discussion for Episode 5 tonight.

We are watching Channel 4, UK Pace.

We have only seen episodes 1 - 4 so far.

Please, NO SPOILERS.

I think it was the slightly sinister way someone in Gilead described her as a dangerous criminal who had kidnapped Nichole.
If they're talking about returning Nichole it makes about as much sense to extradite Emily.

It seems to fit with the emotional torture porn mood of this series.

Thanks for those who were able to explain how Luke got the tape. I was very confused - and yes how come he had a tape player?!

Also, which is why I find June's apparently confident role in her new situation a bit hard to take, the scene with the Lawrences listening to the tapes were to illustrate how June had made the suggestion of listening to them again. But I missed the opening dialogue between June and Mrs Lawrence as it was directly after an ad break when I have to turne the volume down to 10 but once the programme starts I have to hastily up it to 30 - and I still cant hear them properly.

I also had this odd thought the other week that if Canada in the programme had the same policies as Canada has now, Nick could claim asylum on the basis that he identified as a woman and was therefore in danger in Gilead as s/he would barren!

Bet that's one plot line neither Margaret Atwood or the team of writers now would want to tackle ....

I think Mrs Lawrence was trying to recapture the relationship with her husband and return to the time he made the mix tapes before Gilead. She still loves him but not what he has done.

I think they have cassette players because the book was written in the 80s?

Cruel to Be Kind felt like a rather sinister choice of song.

I think they have cassette players because the book was written in the 80s?

Yes, the book was, but we have seen them using current technology, like the clip of Luke and Nicole at the protest was on an iPad or similar.

It made sense in the context of the Lawrences, where they were remembering their youth, but Luke arrived in Canada with nothing. A tape player isn't something he would have had in the basement.

I thought that the tape was made as that was the only tech June could access so her husband had to find a player to listen to it on from somewhere - like a junk shop?

I don't see it would be that hard for someone to find a tape player from somewhere that Luke could have or borrow! I bet loads would come out of the woodwork if you asked around or posted on a local FB or Freecycle page.

It's not exactly the most implausible thing that's happened!

Not quite the same, but I have a discman in my attic and I'm only in my 30's - I can easily imagine someone a smidge older could have a Walkman

That's true that it's not the most implausible thing, but they could have had some suspense where Luke had received a tape but had to wait to play it. I suppose we don't know how much time had elapsed, though. It's not like we see them marking off days on a calendar, and sometimes it's the next day, and other times, months seemy to have gone by.

The Lawrence’s were listening on a cassette player, not just because the book was written in the 80’s but also because the tapes were made years ago on cassette and had never been copied to CD or whatever. They were stored in the basement with a cassette player so the only option when wanting to play them was to listen on cassette player.

June only had access to a tape and cassette player so that’s all she could send to Luke.

Luke could come across a tape player with a bit of asking around. Agree it might have been good to see him having a search for one but this season is sparse on the finer details that made the previous seasons so fantastic so I’m not surprised that was overlooked.

This seasons is massively sub standard on the fine detail front.

I think Serena has gone back to how she was. When she went back into the small room where she cried after meeting Luke, the lighting suddenly changed to deep blue - the Wives’ colour.

And I think Emily would kill herself if she were extradited to Gilead, probably before she even left Canada.

I can't decide if I think Serena has gone back to her old Gilead wife state of mind or if she is playing a longer game...
had I been her I would have stayed in Canada I think-then she could have seen Nicole and had a better life- I can't really understand why she didn't?
I'm enjoying this series still but it's not a patch on season 1 and 2 and seems a bit ridiculous in parts...
In fact I still don't think June would have stayed when given the chance to get out in episode 1-she is no closer to getting Hannah back there than she would be in Canada-and she is considerably further away from Nicole... and in mortal danger to boot...

What is making people think Serena has gone back to being pro-Gilead?

Whatever it was, I clearly missed it - I haven't come away with that impression at all

Her appearance at the end accusing Emily kidnap and appealing for the baby to be returned.
She said when she got off the plane 'it's over now'. Fred said 'it doesn't have to be'. He gave her the choice to leave it be or to continue to kick up a fuss and try to get Nicole back, thereby putting Emily, Luke and everyone else involved at risk and with the end aim of getting Nicole back to Gilead-a regime she has previously agreed she wanted Nicole out of-she chose the second. June's reaction to her was 'what did you do?' Which didn't imply that it ness a great thing for Serena to be doing from her point of view...

I don't see her having a choice though - iirc Fred said it doesn't have to be over, she asked how and he answered, but it didn't show her agreeing? In fact I don't think it even showed Fred giving his opinion - it could be that Gilead had already decided on that course of action beforehand
And she'd have about as much choice in what she said on camera as June would have in standing in the background?

Of course she could have agreed with the appeal, I'm just saying I don't think it showed either way

I can think of at least 3 cassette players in this house 😂

Serena is a very grey character in terms of good/ bad, but she isn't stupid and she is driven. She was a major driver in creating the morally "clean" state of Gilead then suddenly found that her only place in it was as a meek wife with no objective or purpose other than to have a baby. She's seen and experienced that Gilead is a poor place to be a woman and sacrificed her yearned for role as mother and walked away from Nichole and Luke in Canada. She's not going to forget that, or her finger in a hurry.

Serena (and C.Lawrence's wife) have to maintain the front of being the good wife. Serena has already lost face or more literally a finger just for reading the Bible as a protest, so she needs to play the long game very carefully. Fred needs her to be the good wife for his own floundering status and he needs to up his game as a husband to keep her. June encouraging that gives hope of Serena having a little more influence over Fred and in the wider society of Commanders.

had I been her I would have stayed in Canada I think-then she could have seen Nicole and had a better life- I can't really understand why she didn't?

She wouldn’t be able to stay in Canada as a free citizen and see Nichole who has no biological connection to her. In the last season Mr Tuello, the journalist was offering her a deal that would save her from prison if she talked to him and gave all her information on Gilead. She would get nowhere near the child of the woman she held down for her husband to rape.

I’m also not convinced Serena is on board with the appeal. I suspect she knows she only has a certain amount of leeway as far as getting Fred to act how she wants and this was presented to her as already decided.

Luke could come across a tape player with a bit of asking around. Agree it might have been good to see him having a search for one but this season is sparse on the finer details that made the previous seasons so fantastic so I’m not surprised that was overlooked.

I agree that it wouldn't be too difficult for Luke to find such a tape player in Toronto. But I do think that if they showed his search for one, it would have been the most boring scene ever filmed. Who knows, they might have filmed it and edited it out for time.

I don't buy Serena having to do anything for Fred. She's gone off the rails, burnt house down, lost finger and baby. Fred had to beg the handmaid to help him with his wife.

Serena may have seen opportunity here to use this as spring board for good, otherwise... Nah. She's turned tail again.