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GAME OF THRONES. SEASON 8. WRAP UP.

131 replies

OneInAMillionYou · 23/05/2019 23:36

Hello folks

Our Finale thread is getting close to full and the discussion is still going strong, so here's a shiny new space to continue with our theories and comments.

In our version of the GoT universe, where has Drogon taken Dany?

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OneInAMillionYou · 08/06/2019 05:42

Thanks for that old posting SweetSummerChild, great fun to read.

I've started a rewatch from the beginning, looking for 'clues' and seeing things in a very different light now we know the ending. It's also such a pleasure to watch quality performances. Arya was SO young!

I've also really enjoyed the discussions on these threads, they really added immeasurably to my enjoyment of S8.

I've decided that Ep 3 is my favourite episode of S8. It's the only one I have rewatched on several occasions. This wasn't the case with the big battle episodes in earlier seasons.

Anyone else have a favourite episode from S8?

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SweetSummerchild · 08/06/2019 10:13

Anyone else have a favourite episode from S8?

I really enjoyed episode 2. I loved all the references to Dunk and Summerhall and loved Jenny’s song (even though the lyrics were a bit naff). The reunion of Sansa/Theon and the knighting of Brienne were wonderful. Cogman did a great job in writing the episode (no coincidence that the best episode was NOT written by D&D).

On first watch it was a really emotional episode. There was that sense of ‘dread’ about what was to come and who would be lost. I hadn’t read any of the leaks, and really thought Winterfell would be lost in the next episode.

The re-watchability of the episode is, however, somewhat diminished with the knowledge of what was to come - in particular with Jaime and Brienne.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 08/06/2019 13:47

I too have been rewatching, am partway through season 3. So much I'd forgotten (so many wonderful two handed conversations)and I am dreading what is to come.

I loved episode 2 of season 8. I don't really like the battles, although I think they're technically brilliant. For me it's always been about quiet conversations and character development. The latter is what made this programme great and where it slipped at the end.

OneInAMillionYou · 08/06/2019 18:12

Yes, I loved Ep 2 as well, all of the characters in one place preparing to fight and die.
Jenny's Song was such a beautiful scene setter.

Brienne and Jaime should have been left at the wonderful knighting scene. They didn't do right by Brienne by turning her into just another woman scorned. If she HAD to shag anyone it should have been Tormund, for the laughs.

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itscallednickingbentcoppers · 09/06/2019 01:24

'Anyone else have a favourite episode from S8?'

The final episode for me although I know most people seemed not to like it. Everyone was returned to their homes, Jon back in the North - the very North, we had answers at last. It was as good as we could hope for, from a very hyped up show. It was true to the story of the Starks.

itscallednickingbentcoppers · 09/06/2019 01:26

'Throughout we were meant to think Dany was the goodie and would one day take back the throne (weren't we?)'

Were we though? She watched her brother die a violent death without a quiver, burnt the Dothraki men (they did have it coming tbf), strung up the slave owners...yes she was beautiful and kind, but cruel and unhinged too. I think the actress who played her was so lovely it possibly detracted from that slightly.

JAPAB · 09/06/2019 04:24

They were bad guys though. So according to all the rules of fiction, it is acceptable to kill them. You can even give a funny quip while doing it. Roasting innocents came out of nowhere.

OrianaBanana · 09/06/2019 08:47

It makes you think about who the ‘bad guys’ are though JAPAB. Throughout the book as you understand motivations, your opinions change. We used to hate Jaime. In series one the rules of fiction are turned on their head as ‘the good guy’ is suddenly killed. Nothing and no one is simple. Dany’s actions become more morally questionable as her violence turns to those we deem innocents, but was it acceptable before that?

SweetSummerchild · 09/06/2019 16:32

They were bad guys though. So according to all the rules of fiction, it is acceptable to kill them.

Were they, though, or was it more that we saw through Dany’s eyes and she thought they were? We saw how she crucified 163 Meereenese nobles as retribution for the 163 slaves, but later learn that one of them had argued against the crucifixion of the slave children. Did they get any sort of trial? No.

Then there’s the Dothraki, who are an absolutely vile group of human beings. Their culture consists of murder, rape, theft and selling humans as slaves. They take delight in torture, and see other cultures as their prey. However, we see Drogo through Dany’s eyes and their so in lurrve. He is sun and stars and she is the moon yadaya.

Then there’s the Targaryans, who actually believe they are ‘special’ because of their Valyrian blood and therefore don’t have to follow the normal laws of ordinary men. It’s called the Doctrine of Exceptionalism. In JK Rowling’s universe it would be called Pureblood Supremacy.

Given GRRM’s well publicised progressive political views and pacifist beliefs (he avoided the Vietnam war draft due to his anti-war stories) why did anyone ever buy into he idea that he was going to write a story where an entitled blood-supremacist with three WMDs and a gang of thugs was going to usher in a new age of peace and prosperity?

WinterIsComingKnitFaster · 09/06/2019 16:39

Dany’s project was always inevitably going to end in humanitarian disaster though. There is no way in which bringing an army of Unsullied, another army of Dothraki, and three dragons across the sea to take Westeros by force could not end in mass slaughter and anyone who would make that choice for the sake of a throne was never the good guy.

SweetSummerchild · 09/06/2019 17:35

Sadly, WinterIsComingKnitFaster there is a huge group of Dany fans online who remain utterly convinced that D&D ‘did her dirty’ and that she will not become the villain in the books. Maybe the full-arm Mother of Dragons tattoos and the daughters/dogs/lizards named ‘Daenerys’ have something to do with it.

I’m on a few ASOIAF FB groups and there is still lots of Daenerys fan art popping up with 300+ comments saying “Still My Queen ❤️❤️❤️🔥🔥❤️❤️🔥” and suchlike.

It would make a very interesting psychological study.

WinterIsComingKnitFaster · 09/06/2019 18:15

It’s not like nobody warned them SweetSummerchild. There’s a Baby Names thread from 2012 “should I call my baby Danaerys?” and this is literally the third post.

GAME OF THRONES. SEASON 8. WRAP UP.
WinterIsComingKnitFaster · 09/06/2019 18:40

This is also a post that more people should have listened to: from a 2013 babynames thread “I’ve called my DD Khaleesi and am sure that it was a brilliant decision I’ll never have cause to regret”

GAME OF THRONES. SEASON 8. WRAP UP.
OrianaBanana · 09/06/2019 18:43

DS went to nursery with a Khaleesi Smile

SweetSummerchild · 09/06/2019 18:48

WinterIsComingKnitFaster those are brilliant!

WinterIsComingKnitFaster · 10/06/2019 12:01

I’m rewatching season 8 before my Now TV subscription expires and slightly to my surprise the thing that’s affected me most was the build-up to Theon’s death. Huge ugly crying fit. Admittedly I was a bit sleep-deprived but still, it hit me like a truck, when I was no longer worrying about everybody else and intrigued by what was going to happen next. Anyone else found stuff very different second time around?

JasperRising · 10/06/2019 12:31

Not rewatched yet but Theons death and his scenes in the lead up were the bit I cried at most on the first watch. Theon in episode 3 and all of episode 2 were the highlights of the season for me. Might rewatch and see if I change my mind!

IHeartArya · 10/06/2019 17:46

Loved episode 2 - & just rewatched this afternoon. Again struck by Daenerys reaction to Jon’s news that he’s Aegon. No recognition of the pain he’s going through just that he has a claim.

And I loath Greyworm!

onceandneveragain · 10/06/2019 21:56

yeah sweetsummerchild but I thought it was also the case that the whole night king/vs iron throne thing is an allegory for individual countries playing irrelevant political games and squabbling while ignoring the real danger to the planet: climate change... except that in the end of GOT Cersei's plan of ignoring the NK, sitting back and letting other people sort it out was the most successful, and it turned out 'climate change' can actually be sorted out in a few hours by a completely unexpected hero randomly turning up rather than a disparate group of previous enemies uniting for the greater good, so I don't think we can read an exact parallel into what extent GRRM's personal views are replicated in the story...

Re: Dany, I have no doubt that the end result will be the same in the books but will make a lot more sense and be much better written. it's interesting that out of all the main characters, until Barristan turns up in book (5?) and then then Quentyn, she is the only one telling her story so we get a much more one sided view of her than any of the other characters. If we got a POV chapter from crucified slaver #123 I'm sure we would have a very different impression of her!

bit late now but for those who asked why D&D said Kit was 12 when he started in their speech - they were obviously taking the piss! exaggerating how young he was/how long the show had been on for etc.

I would be fascinated to see what the cast and crew really thought of S8...it's funny watching/reading some of the interviews and seeing how they balance being polite/positive towards D&D with their personal feelings. Varys in particular gave a bit of a scathing interview to one magazine and you can see him looking pissed off in the 'last watch' documentary when it comes to his death!

SweetSummerchild · 11/06/2019 09:44

onceandneveragain yes, the original concept was that humanity would squabble over the throne while ignoring growing existential threats to mankind - ice from the North and fire from the East. I seem to remember that GRRM wasn’t sure in the early days of the outline whether physical dragons would even form part of the story, although the metaphorical ones certainly would.

It seems the showrunners wrote themselves into a hole with the Others the moment they introduced the Night King character. As soon as you introduce a traditional fantasy ‘big bad boss’ they then have to be disposed of as a ‘big bad boss’. This was completely clear from Hardhome onwards. I never really got all these ‘Bran is the Night King’ theories. Bran was always a main character in GRRM’s story, and there never was a Night King.

I definitely think Bran will be instrumental in pushing back the threat of the Others, although it is likely to be at the Isle of Faces. The World of Ice and Fire briefly mentions a Green King of the Gods Eye from the Age of Heroes, but nothing else is mentioned. Coincidence?

As far as Cersei just ‘sitting out the war’ goes, it was a very sound strategy. However, why would she ever have ‘come together’ with the North/Targs when they were only going to overthrow her afterwards? It was a stupid, contrived and poorly written plot with the whole intention of getting a dragon to the Night King so the wall could fall and the AotD could come south.

I firmly believe that fAegon will probably have the same strategy. While Dany and dragons are working with the North to push back the Long Night, the Mummer’s Dragon will usurp the Lannisters and be installed on the Iron Throne with his Cheering Crowd. Thus, the final destruction will take place in KL - a place largely untouched up to this point. This is the ‘scouring of the shire’ ending that GRRM is trying to point to.

The evidence for this comes from the HOTU visions about the Mummer’s Dragon and also from the show. In S4 E2 Bran has his big weirwood vision. He sees two things:

  • the shadow of a single dragon flying over an intact KL.
  • a throne room destroyed from above

This episode was written by ........GRRM.

GRRM’s plans have changed radically since he started the series. It’s gone from a trilogy, to six book and now to seven+. The between-chapter time jumps were replaced by a planned five year time jump to no time jump and a telling statement along the lines of ‘if a 12 year-old has to conquer the world then so be it’.

In ADWD we see Bran attaching himself to the tree and Dany becoming more like a dragon (particularly in her final chapter). I think we will see POV chapters from them in Winds - maybe up until the point that Bran leaves the tree and Dany unites her Khalessar. However, I think we won’t see many more of their POVs after that as Dany becomes the ‘dragon’ and Bran becomes the 3 eyed crow.

JAPAB · 12/06/2019 07:29

Wonder if Jon's chapters will be titled "Aegon" when the time comes.

Also wonder how Theon will redeem himself in the books, in the eyes of the Starks. As he won't be rescuing Sansa from Ramsey in the books.

And what happened to Ilyn Payne?

scissy · 12/06/2019 19:27

@JAPAB The end of book five had a teaser chapter for Winds that hints what happens to Theon.
I think part of the problem of the show is they condensed the number of characters so characters inherited storylines. I suspect we'll see the same general things in the book but played by different characters e.g. I can imagine Sam earning his chain whilst that other dude in Oldtown who I've forgotten takes up bits of his storyline.

SweetSummerchild · 12/06/2019 21:49

And what happened to Ilyn Payne?

The actor was diagnosed with cancer and the prognosis was not good. He has since recovered, but by then he had been written out of the series.

In the books he accompanied Jaime to Riverrun.

MyOtherProfile · 12/06/2019 22:45

The actor was diagnosed with cancer and the prognosis was not good.
I remember that. He did a farewell tour and everything because he thought he was close to death and then pulled through and was ok.

SisterMaryLoquacious · 12/06/2019 22:51

I’d have loved to see Ser Ilya back for a cameo in the last series. Eat your heart out Jon Snow: this is what back from the dead really looks like.

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