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CONTINUATION GAME OF THRONES. EPISODE 5 as at 15 May

259 replies

OneInAMillionYou · 15/05/2019 14:36

welcome citizens of the Realm!

I will open the thread for Episode 6 on Sunday.

All discussion welcome. We post different views but respect each other's contributions.

No spoilers from elsewhere on the net, please.

OP posts:
SweetSummerchild · 16/05/2019 18:02

The problem is that is how she was played in the series. Ruthless against her enemies, yes, but always a defender of the innocent. Never even a hint that she might kill babies?

Seriously, though, Dany fans on Westeros.org are beside themselves trying to defend her, criticise the writing and say ‘George wouldn’t do that’. They are trying to psychoanalyse her and look for imaginary mental health conditions or lack thereof or imaginary scenarios where what she does is ‘less evil’ but has the same consequences.

Yes, the writing and character development has been less than good - but nobody was screaming about this in season 6 and 7 when it was ‘evil Sansa’ being badly written. She was always ‘destined’ to be stupid and manipulative right?

I seriously doubt that anything other than this is going to go down in the books. She is going to destroy Kings Landing along with most of its population. Whichever way you cut it, there is going to be no ‘good’ ending for her.

As far as psychoanalysis and George’s ‘expertise’ in it goes - his scientific knowledge is somewhat flaky on many subjects. Many of his characters have prophetic dreams and visions. As far as I know, this doesn’t fall into any current recognised field of psychoanalysis. His understanding and use of genetics, inheritance and medical conditions is imaginative and clearly fantastical.

People like to claim that his universe has ‘rules’, but they cannot be directly compared to ours in any branch of science.

That dragon would have run out of flame power on the first breath, for one.

yumyumpoppycat · 16/05/2019 18:04

Grin at not taking care of pets.

Jon , after double apocalypse sits down with a deep sigh 'if only I had taken one for the team, and then patted Ghost all this could have been avoided,'

HeckyPeck · 16/05/2019 18:11

Jon , after double apocalypse sits down with a deep sigh 'if only I had taken one for the team, and then patted Ghost all this could have been avoided,'

😂 I almost feel sorry for him...But then I remember Ghost’s face and I hope he suffers!

Seriously, though, Dany fans on Westeros.org are beside themselves trying to defend her, criticise the writing and say ‘George wouldn’t do that’.

I know! George obviously will do that as he said the ending is the same, although I imagine he’ll do it in a way that feels more like a complete arc. I haven’t read the books, but apparently she’s played less as the hero in them?

SweetSummerchild · 16/05/2019 18:25

HeckyPeck she’ massively entitled in the books. She refers to the seven kingdoms as ‘my seven kingdoms’. I’ve always found her irritating.

Her rule in Slavers Bay has been disastrous. Astapor has descended into anarchy and is now disease-ridden. Many of the slaves in Meereen have petitioned to sell themselves back into slavery as life was better then. She tries to make the right decisions, but they have been quite flakey at times.

Her personal mantra is ‘if I look back, I’m lost’. I was always worried at this because I thought it showed a lack of reflection on her mistakes. Now I think it’s the other way round - if she looks back at all she’s lost she will go mad.

Doobigetta · 16/05/2019 18:27

@OneinaMillion I’ve seen the live show. It is incredible- if you get the chance to go you really should.

yumyumpoppycat · 16/05/2019 18:29

I haven't seen the fanboy stuff but I don't get the Dany adoration - I didn't like how she flamed the whole city but it wasn't because I like her character. I am probably stating the obvious but could Emilia's acting be part of the problem - us fans might have forgotten some key lines but she would have had to absorb and memorise them presumably so how could she not have seen it coming? I am not quite sure how she would achieve the transition without giving the game away by acting more obviously psychopathic anyway...

SweetSummerchild · 16/05/2019 18:34

yumyum she has been playing Daenerys increasingly deadpan for the past few seasons - so much so that one Podcast actually call her Deadpan.

She isn’t an emotionless actress, but when Viserion died in S7E6, she barely registered any facial expression whatsoever.

I can only imagine she has been directed to act this way.

yumyumpoppycat · 16/05/2019 18:52

Ah ok that's interesting Summer. I think I quite liked her in that stone roses movie actually (I have a really bad memory). I guess that was a deliberate move then from the directors - maybe the effort to keep the surprise element in has undermined her character a bit. Would someone who seems so keen for love be so emotionless?

CaptainBrickbeard · 16/05/2019 19:06

Is she keen for love or slavish worship? The hints have been planted all the way through - I didn’t expect it but now I look back it does seem obvious that this was going to happen! It’s what I love about GoT - I don’t see something coming but then realise it was foreshadowed in retrospect.

yumyumpoppycat · 16/05/2019 19:20

That's true maybe it is more slavish worship than love. She was upset about Jorah but he was verging on creepy in his adoration.

itswinetime · 16/05/2019 19:29

I have my issues with they way somethings went on these serious (and pretty much ever since they over took the books). That said With a story line like Danny and her going full mad queen or whatever you want to call it it had to be subtle, if there were massive flashing signs then when it happened everyone would be expecting it it wouldn't have the impact and the shock factor. (As it was lots of people I know called it).

People spent to long and put to much time in to theories and now they are pissed they are wrong! And they are using any excuse to justify it even ones that make no sense. A remake will probably happen one day but I don't see the point untill/if the books are finished otherwise what's the point.

M15sterPip · 16/05/2019 19:59

I think a significant proportion of Dany's core fans were too busy fancying the pants off Emilia Clarke to notice the subtle signs of egotism in her character.

RuffleCrow · 16/05/2019 20:03

I can almost see Arya on the Iron throne.

But do we even know if there still is an iron throne to be sat on after Daenerys murderous desecration?

DragonglassHeart · 16/05/2019 20:53

I've just caught up from pg 5 of the last thread and my head is in a whirl with all the posts and theories and my own thoughts. Thank you so much to everyone taking the time to write their posts.

I really enjoyed the episode and it was no shock to me that Dany went off on one. But something had changed for me and despite being a big fan previously I just felt irritated and distrustful of her this season.

In a complete switcharound and much to my own surprise I am now rooting for Sansa.

I've seen 'Arya's horse' mentioned a few times and I have to point out that it is not the same horse the Golden Company leader had. That poor boy ended up on his back with his hinds pointing in an odd direction Sad

Different bridle, bit and rein set up.

And whoever put that bridle onto Arya's horse needs flogging with a horse whip a good rap across the knuckles for leaving that buckle undone. What is seen cannot be unseen

unashamed horse nerd

CONTINUATION GAME OF THRONES. EPISODE 5 as at 15 May
Figgygal · 16/05/2019 21:07

Joining the thread again

IHeartArya · 16/05/2019 22:36

I’ve made a mistake telling dh I’m staying up to watch it. He’s like I thought we could watch together when I get in from work. He has a work do on Monday so will be home after 10!!! He’s all upset that I have said I’m not waiting but I’ll watch with him again.

This is not AIBU but please tell me who is right - me obviously or him? Grin

itswinetime · 16/05/2019 22:44

This is not AIBU but please tell me who is right - me obviously or him? grin

Well you either watch it at 2 or avoid the internet till 10! Which could lead to you missing important world events he needs to know about so really your doing him a favour as you can safely surf the net and pass the information on. Its very good of you really Wink

BrienneofTarthILoveYou · 16/05/2019 22:45

He's totally wrong!

FadedRed · 16/05/2019 23:01

IheartArya You watch it when you want to, love. Your DH is being totally UR. He should have rearranged his work do.
One theory i’ve just thought of and not seen anywhere else (so probably total bollocks): Dany, (now realising that nobody in Westeros loves her, despite being told her entire life and especially by creepy Jorah that everyone in W will adore her), just flies Drogon back to her fancy man in Mereen and stays there being Missa or whatever it was they called her.
The remaining Westerosi just pack the Dothraki and Unsullied back from whence they came, and then sort things out between them. The Nights Watch is issued with those gigantic crossbow thingies and become The Sky Watch, their mission being to shoot anything that looked even vaguely like a dragon out of the sky before it gets anywhere near Westeros.
The end.

Leontine · 16/05/2019 23:25

This article is great and articulates how I feel perfectly. www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2019/05/14/it-is-now-clear-having-two-short-game-of-thrones-final-seasons-was-a-mistake/

Leontine · 16/05/2019 23:40

@itswinetime shock factor isn’t always a good thing IMO.

I’m gonna try and explain things as clearly as I can but I’m struggling to find the right words so I hope this makes sense!

There is a difference between shock and surprise. The former is not a good thing because it often doesn’t make sense. Part of the brilliance of the show is that usually things always make sense (like the Red wedding) due to being perfectly timed and having everything put in place beforehand.

A great example of this since the show surpassed the books is when Cersei blew up the Sept of Balor. It was well seeded over a period of 2 seasons but when it happened it was still ‘shocking’ but wasn’t a shock for the sake of shocking or subverting expectations. D&D wrote that episode, which IMO was one of the best ever episodes, so they’ve got it in them to produce original work that’s brilliant.

MunchMunch · 17/05/2019 00:06

Can I add my prediction/theory please?

possible spoiler ahead

I think that everything that happened in the last episode was a vision that Bran is having. (He can see the future as well as the past can't he?!)

I was disappointed in Cersei and Jamie's ending. I really thought "Jamie" was going kill cersei but he turned out to be Arya with his face.

I think dany will now head to winter fell to kill Sansa for opening her mouth about Jon and ruining her chance on the iron throne.

We've watched right from season 1 the last few weeks and it was obvious second time round how Dany was slowly going mad and power hungry.

itswinetime · 17/05/2019 01:38

Leontine

Then maybe I used the wrong word because what I was trying to say was that there have been subtle clues all along that Danny wasn't just a hero, or some benevolent leader. Any more obvious and it would have taken away the doubt. When you sat there unsure of what she would do next and how far she would go. I think you needed that and I think you needed to be taken a back or yes maybe I do mean shocked at what she did. It was as massacre above and beyond anything we have seen on thrones before.

I'm not saying the build up couldn't have been better, I agree there are issues with how it's all pulling together. But I do disagree that it's just that D&D can't be bothered anymore. They are finishing someone else's story. They know key points in these characters life's, key events that will happen but they don't know any of the details about how or why. Maybe even if they do they can't work it the same way because it needs a book character, we just don't know. I do think are writing endings for characters that I'm not sure they agree with but I think they feel they owe it fans to end it as similar as they can. It's a shame that it seems to be ending on a bit of a sour note for people but I'm also not sure what they expected we knew it wasn't going to be a happy ending and its not.

BlackCatSleeping · 17/05/2019 04:06

I think people were going to be pissed off no matter what they did. People love to complain. And people are just so passionate about GoT. I feel that in a few years, it will be remembered as one of the greatest shows ever and the gripes will mostly be forgotten. A lot of the ideas people think should have happened, I actually think sound kind of shit. Like I thought the battle with the NK would be in KL, but I can see it made much more sense the way they did it.

So, it’s possible the ending will be shit, but I really think it’ll be amazing.

By the way, is it true that GRRM used to write for the Twilight Zone? I think he’s such an amazing storyteller.

CodenameVillanelle · 17/05/2019 05:55

Bran doesn't see the future I don't think, only the past and the present