The Nights Watch: GAME OF THRONES SEASON 8 EPISODE 3. April 29 UK. Spoilers after 2 am.

[OneInAMillionYou]

Come gather brothers and sisters of The Nights Watch. The Battle of Winterfell will soon be upon us.

Valar morghulis

It was a beautiful moment, possibly one of the best visual moments of the show, although fairly obvious the flames would all quickly go out. I guess they weren't all supposed to be dead at the moment the fire went out - some icy magic probably put the fire out before they started fighting and then some fighting hopefully continued and maybe some Dothraki escaped. Well that's my version anyway!

I don't usually follow the TV threads (don't have time) but had to have a peek at this one to see what everyone thought!

Some of my random thoughts on it:

I guessed in episode 2 that Arya would kill the NK and told DH so! So was very smug when it happened. In fact I thought there were some quite big hints, especially about Gendry making her special weapon - though it was a surprise that she used the dagger in the end (I thought she would throw the spear, like when the NK took out the dragon!).

I was quite chuffed it was her though - I don't think it would have been right for it to be Jon. If it was him the only way he would have done it would be run-up-and-hit-him-with-sword, but we know the NK isn't that easily killed by normal methods (as Theon, the fall from the dragon and dragon flame showed). Jon may be a good fighter but doesn't have the sort of supernatural talents needed (OK he came back to life but that wasn't really his doing!), whereas Arya's training allowed her to get in close and hit just the right spot before he could kill her.

As for Theon's charge, I read this as him being close to dead anyway after having dispatched all the other attackers (the look in his eyes just before!) and wanting to finish well; and what Bran said to him was like a goodbye, which indicated Bran also knew he was about to die one way or another (and perhaps also that Bran no longer needed him to stand guard). So it made sense to me.

I thought Sam did pretty well actually, he seemed to be holding his own in the fighting most times we got a glimpse of him I thought. If he had been a total liability I'm sure he would have been dead pretty fast!

I too found it quite improbable how many of the main characters survived, especially those in the thick of the fighting in the castle (Jaime, Brienne, Tormund etc) - with so many wights and then their own dead being revived against them it didn't seem as though anyone in there should survive. But I liked the thought that it's flipping our (now)-expectation of unexpected main-character deaths by giving us unexpected survivals!

As for the suddenness of the NK's death, wasn't that how it always had to be? As long as he was alive, it would be ultimately impossible for the living to win, as every one who died could be raised up against them again - so not only the survivors would be shrinking all the time, but the attackers constantly increasing. So literally the only way for anyone to survive would be to take him out. Of course he could have stayed back in safety instead of coming for Bran, but I think that would have been the end of the series then As for why it needed to be in episode 3 though, hopefully we'll find out soon!

Oh last thing for now, I was v disappointed in Sansa in the crypt - I thought she was meant to be becoming a leader and Lady of Winterfell (and some people speculating whether she'll even end up as queen), so I was expecting her maybe to have some words to keep up the courage of the other women and children, and/or be ready to have a try with her dagger when the corpses started emerging, or something at any rate - but she barely said/did anything and seemed to ignore almost everyone else (except talking to Tyrion - though I did like that scene), and when she did speak it was putting people's backs up (Missandei). I hoped for more from her!

I think the last shot will be Cersei sitting on the iron throne looking dead smug. The she peels off her face and it's Arya

ahag I agree regarding the NK, he was never going to die in a 1-2-1 combat. It had to be something so left wing no one was expecting it. That way assassin was needed. We he didn’t see was there..

Agree about Sansa too, she could have done a lot more in the crypt and shown her protective side but was was still being snarky about Danny when there was legions of dead people slaughtering the living ones upstairs. Maybe that’s an insight to her true personality of a leader - a fledgling Cersei?

Oh also I hope we will find out what is the point of Gendry, as he doesn't seem to have done that much yet that couldn't have been done by a.n.other character/good blacksmith (except the leeches bit), but surely having a Baratheon bastard around is going to turn out relevant in some way? But maybe the speculation about a baby is right... (I do like him by the way, just a bit mystified as to why he's there!).

I felt quite sorry for the Dothraki, just charging out there.

I still can’t see it being the end of the NK, after all he had Aria by her throat. How will she (and her possible Gendry baby) be affected by being touched by the NK himself? I don’t want that to be the end of the NK so I am holding fast to my theory!

Love how Cersei doesn’t give a shit about the commotion up north. Like ‘meh..whatevs..im still the queen.’

So who does Dany have left as her army they are gone

Lastly, if the WW/NK threat has been eradicated, wildlings have moved South, and with a hole in the wall at Eastwatch-on-Sea, surely there will be no need for a Lord Commander and Night's Watch moving forward?

Nooo, that was the mistake they made last time! They need to rebuild the wall, strengthen the Night’s Watch and make sure everyone knows about dragonglass.

Nooo, that was the mistake they made last time! They need to rebuild the wall, strengthen the Night’s Watch and make sure everyone knows about dragonglass.

Why though? The Night King, the white walkers and the whites are all dead what would the wall be protecting them from? What would the purpose of the nights watch be? Unless the third twist is a new big bad that needs to be kept away from everyone there is no point in any of that anymore.

In fact without the Night King north of the wall should return to normal now and be liveable again I think 🤔

When I watched it again yesterday, it was clear to me that the Dothraki were sent first because they were the cavalry. But because in most battles the cavalry charges first anyway. They are fast, but then don't do well in one to one combat in the middle of the battle. They are most useful as a first charge as a rule.
Not so sure here and it is presented as if even they didn't expect the sheer wave of undead.
Everyone else was on foot, including the Knights IIRC.

You are all right. Sansa's 'you are all rubbish' speech is not the greatest pep talk of all time.

So who does Dany have left as her army they are gone
She will have some unsullied and the North as Jon promised. Presumably there will still be men on the Iron Islands and Yara will join her.

Cavalry can charge first if the attack is well timed- like both charges in Battle of the Bastards, or in real historical wars. I think they had to die not only for budget, but because the horses couldn't all charge back into the castle and they needed Dani impulsive and rilled up. Still a beautiful scene either way.

I don't really understand Cersei's intentions anymore. She is an evil bitch, but one you can relate to and feel for at times. She's always been about protecting her family, now she has none but is still as batshit. Unless she is now just like a stupider version of Tywin and it's the Lannister Legacy she cares about, or maybe she really is just that stubborn and proud. I actually really love her, so hoping she has a great end.

She will have some unsullied and the North as Jon promised

Are there any people left in the north?

Are there any people left in the north?
And will she have to agree to Sansa's wish for an independent north to get those that are left alive?

Despite the dragons, I think the Starks may almost have the upper hand now the Dothraki and unsullied have been decimated - though the remaining well trained unsullied should be worth more than the same number of untrained northern peasants.
The Stark siblings/cousins also have an assassin.

I felt really sad about the dothraki. They followed Dany to another continent and trusted her and they were all slaughtered in someone else's fight. I agree it was provably to get rid of the horses though!

I think we may well not have seen the end of "the dead" and quite possibly a new night king/ queen is made. Probably Dany.

I was happy with t Arya win but not sure it's the end of it.

I read a theory that Jon is distracting the dragon for Arya. I thought at the time he was distracting it generally (though it did look a bit as though he was going to ride it!)

My ideal ending of the series:

Jon, Dany and Team Good go to Kings Landing to fight Team Bad. Big battle etc. To minimise ‘civilian casualties’, Jon and Dany go straight for Red Keep with dragons to try to force a surrender. Various other battle things happen.

We get Cleganebowl, we get Valonqar etc. Qyburn’s ballista takes down Rhaegal but Jon survives.

There is then some ‘kingmaker’ bickering and plots between Team Dany and Team Jon. This leads to a big betrayal of Dany.

She is mega-pissed at this and decides to burn the ‘traitors’ using Drogon. Don’t know who traitors are, but must include Varys (as per season 7 episode 2). Bran ‘sees’ this happening from Winterfell Godswood and goes back in time and gets Mad King Aerys to stash a load of wildfire under that exact spot. When Dany says ‘Dracarys’ the whole lot goes up and wipes out her, Drogon and everyone else in the vicinity. Jon survives.

No more dragons, no more white walkers, no more magic.

Jon takes throne, but the other key players decide they need a better system. They go to some very significant location and there is some sort of Magna Carta moment that we can all pretend has more impact on the ‘system’ than the real one did.

The end...

Wow, I really like that sweet

I hope you had a word in the ear of D&D

Conflict between Dany and Jon over who gets the throne will be interesting. And the books were foreshadowing Jaime having a big role in ‘kingmaking’ So I’d love to see him as negotiator between parties.

The books also foreshadowed Tyrion betraying Dany for interests closer to his heart. I thought that would be for Jaime, but looks like he’s leaning towards team Stark / Sansa. Hmm.

I wasn’t expecting the NK/WW to come back but think the real battle will be for the IT and think there are only three more episodes? 🤔

Agree Sansa was a bit rubbish

Enjoyed her chat with Tyrion, also love Brienne and Jamie together

Love that it was Arya who killed the NK

Sad Jorah died but the main characters did well to survive this episode

Could Dany and Jon rule together?

She wants it. He probably isn’t bothered but has a greater claim

I feel there must be some twist though

Like Sansa and Tyrion to rule together

Problems I can see with Jon and Dany as co-rulers:

It doesn’t ‘fit’ with the promised ‘bittersweet’ ending
It doesn’t ‘fit’ with GRRM’s comments about his concerns with the whole ‘Good King Aragorn Ruled Wisely’ arc at teh end of LoTR
It doesn’t ‘fit’ with there being a third ‘holy sh*t’ moment at the end of the series
It doesn’t ‘fit’ with how they have set up Dany in the show

However, the ‘holy shit’ moment and the ‘great unexpected’ may be that it does turn out to be a Disney ending after all. Let’s face it, the viewer is expecting a twist. The twist may be that there is none. That really would be ‘subverting viewer expectations’.

It doesn’t ‘fit’ with the promised ‘bittersweet’ ending

I didn’t know about this

But agreed Dany and Jon ending up on the throne is a bit too Disney

I feel we need a Hodor type twist from Bran before the season ends

I hope you had a word in the ear of D&D

It would have been less of a word in the ear and more of a steel toe-capped boot in the rear!

Sorry for sounding negative. It is still a visuallly beautiful, well-directed and well produced series, but there are some big issues with the ‘story’ they are trying to tell and the way they are developing some of the key characters.

When I watched it again yesterday, it was clear to me that the Dothraki were sent first because they were the cavalry. But because in most battles the cavalry charges first anyway. They are fast, but then don't do well in one to one combat in the middle of the battle

I read an interview with some "experts" on military strategy and they said it was dumb to charge the horses.

Here: www.vox.com/culture/2019/4/30/18522955/game-of-thrones-season-8-battle-winterfell-military

It's a fairly interesting read.

I can’t actually believe military professionals are commenting on a fictional show just goes to show how much the show has hooked people in!

Westeros.org has whole sections about military strategy, troop numbers.
My favourites are the comparisons of economic policies of various Hands, e.g. Breakspear v Bloodraven or Tywin.