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Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

999 replies

SachaStark · 06/03/2019 15:51

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

OP posts:
Ribbonsonabox · 06/03/2019 23:03

It could be that Macaulay was in too much of a position of power for Michael to risk trying it on with him... people would be more likely to believe him wouldn't they? As it would look less likely that he was just saying it for money or fame... so I think theres a chance it never got that far for him

PickledLimes · 06/03/2019 23:04

By higher risk I mean that there's more danger of being discovered. That doesn't mean that it didn't happen though. I've no doubt that there are other victims who haven't came forward and who may never do so.

ShesABelter · 06/03/2019 23:05

I have watched them both. I have absolutely no doubt that they are telling the truth. Thats now two boys who accused him and then the two men in the programme. The narrative was the same by all of them. The nipple stuff he was into was said by them all.

The infatuation of a grown man of little boys should of sounded alarm bells. The parents were taken in by the fame and money and it's shocking they allowed such extensive abuse to happen. Im also not sure I believe Macaulay culkin wasn't also abused but won't come forward.

Sinister I doubt anyone blames the parents more, but we as parents are allowed to express disbelief that they'd allow little boys to sleep in bed with a grown man. Wades mum said she'd spend her day running round neverland trying to find them. She said when she first left him to go to Niagara falls she got anxiety as she couldn't contact him but then went and left him again. It's ludicrous. There's not a hope in hell my six year old boy would be allowed to do any if that in a year or anytime as a child no matter how rich or famous someone was.

Lightsabre · 06/03/2019 23:06

I wonder what the staff saw or felt over the years? They must have been complicit in all this.

HowlsMovingBungalow · 06/03/2019 23:07

Clinks glass @Thisnamechanger

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 06/03/2019 23:08

Macauley Culkin is alleged to have had a heroin problem in his early 20s which might indicate self medicating for emotional reasons. But he also had awful stage parents who I believe he divorced in his teens? whether he was or wasn't abused by MJ there was already a lot of dysfunction in his childhood.

MrsBobDylan · 06/03/2019 23:09

I am in no doubt that man abused those children.

Watching them speak, they are all still in his thrall in some ways. Wade's mother looked choked up that MJ didn't get in touch often with her son after they moved to America. Which seems unbelievable, but people who have been groomed very often stay completely conflicted, even though their lives have been ruined by an abuser.

I had to force myself to watch that programme. Those poor men. They were tortured by that rapist.

bringbacksideburns · 06/03/2019 23:10

I've always wondered about Macawley Culkin.
I know his family were very messed up but he just looks haunted in the same way one of these men does, although he's always consistently denied anything off with MJ.

I'm trying to imagine on what planet you would leave your 7 year old child alone for five days with a grown man you'd known about a week, sleeping in the same room. That's some fast grooming. I don't care how famous you are.

The fact they haven't been paid means they have nothing to gain in giving all these details.
They are very credible.

Seville abused in plain sight. MJ paraded a succession of young boys in and out of his room and was dismissed as an innocent Peter Pan figure. Don't forget Saville was the marathon running charity fundraiser with keys to get in Broadmoor and free access to Stoke Mandeville.

VeryLittleOwl · 06/03/2019 23:11

Pickled - the faxes got cut from the UK version, they had to lose a couple of bits to accommodate C4's ad break lengths. The grandmother has also been taken out, I think.

ccmrob12 · 06/03/2019 23:11

Of course they way they are saying makes him out to be a paedophile, because they they want people to believe that they are telling the truth and he was. Why the change of story? Why now? Go back and look at previous testimonies. Look at the history of it all.

The other kid in the documentary, the one that James said replaced him, he has also come out and said no abuse took place. He wasn't famous, he was just the same as the others.

cleomummy · 06/03/2019 23:12

I can't make my mind up about Jimmy, he's so calm and detached from it all. Why would be keep the rings if they are so difficult to look at. He just seems completely emotionless.

His mum is unbelievable. The way she's talking about it now, laughing and like she's still in awe of MJ is crazy. I can see how that whole family were groomed over time which led to her allowing him to share a room alone with MJ. It was like he was a big brother.

I wade seems more credible and believable. He shows emotion and you can see the genuine anguish in his face. How swept up and completely obsessed with MJ he was. But I literally can't understand his mother. She didn't seem groomed, she left her son alone with MJ for several days after knowing him one weekend, that wasn't a long term grooming and manipulating case, was it? I Cannot believe she did that.

I think wade's mother was completely fame and Money hungry. She seeked MJ out for that purpose and put her son at risk because she wanted to push him to be famous. I don't think she had any regard for his safety and was only thinking of how herself and her son could be in the limelight.
In my opinion she wasn't groomed, she enabled him for her own means.

Interesting that Brett and Macurley deny anything happened to them though.

HowlsMovingBungalow · 06/03/2019 23:14

You only have to look into child actors in Hollywood and how many are addicts/dead/screwed up... it is rancid and has been for years and years.

PickledLimes · 06/03/2019 23:15

Thank you, VerylittleOwl. It's unfortunate that they decided to take the faxes out because those were so disturbing and said a lot.(I'd believe them with or without the faxes but I thought that they deserved to be showcased. I'll have to look up what the Grandmother had to say.

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 06/03/2019 23:16

I didn't think Jimmy seemed emotionless at all. He was composed, most of the time, but maybe he just finds it easier to talk about the abuse if he views it in a more detached manner.

EmmaGrundyForPM · 06/03/2019 23:18

What did the faxes say?

PickledLimes · 06/03/2019 23:18

CleoMummy we had a brief discussion about the rings earlier if you look back and why he may have kept them. There's no one way to respond to abuse either. There's no script to follow for abuse survivors . Every person is different and detachment is far from uncommon, though I'd say he was far from calm when his hands were shaking when holding the rings.

Redshoeblueshoe · 06/03/2019 23:18

Ccm what name would you give a man who shares his bed with random children ?

Februaryblooms · 06/03/2019 23:19

Is it not possible that there are more hidden victims who've been paid off and signed non disclosure agreements hence not coming forward for that reason? Or would NDA's no longer stand as enforceable by MJ's estate after his passing? I'm not clued up with the legalities of such things.

Either way, there's a plethora of reasons people wouldn't come forward isn't there?

Shame, fear of not being believed, having seen the ones who have come forward being crucified by MJ supporters. It's also possible that hidden victims are still suffering conflict about what happened to them being abuse and not wanting to face up to it, even in adulthood.

I've lied to the police in the past and said my ex partner had not hit me even though he had, I would have lied on oath to the effect at the time to protect him because I was very much under his control and manipulation at the time.

Obviously that's a completely different kettle of fish and in no way comparable but I can definitely understand why either of these men would have lied on oath at the time and testified in MJ's favour if they felt a warped sense of loyalty towards him.

Thisnamechanger · 06/03/2019 23:21

He just seems completely emotionless

I would guess he has a 'script' in his head that he sticks to when describing the abuse and talks about it more or less the same way each time to avoid breaking down. It's a coping mechanism.

PickledLimes · 06/03/2019 23:21

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6767779/Bizarre-faxes-lullaby-Michael-Jackson-wrote-alleged-rape-victim-Wade-Robson-revealed.html

You can see some and read about them here. Daily Mail link because it provides the most information about the faxes and other articles I looked at seem to refer back to them.

PickledLimes · 06/03/2019 23:24

I'm so sorry that you've suffered Domestic violence, FebruaryBlooms. I was just thinking that of domestic abuse victims too, that like child abuse victims they'll often defend their abuser for a variety of reasons. It in no way meansthat they're lying.

SlangBack · 06/03/2019 23:29

I noticed how he asked for the child for 1 year.

Then the mother said, he had a new child every year.

ccmrob12 · 06/03/2019 23:31

A paedophile a person who is sexually attracted to children. I have never seen any proof yet, other than testimonies by people with a lot financial incentives, that he was sexually attracted to kids.

Take these faxes that were 'cut' from the documentary, you don't think that the FBI would have been able to track them and trace them back? All these porn videos he was playing, you don't think other adults would have known he had these videos and could have been playing them to kids? Also, Wade clearly pointed out as a 7 year old how wrong it was for him to being seeing porn right? Yet when he later explains the change in story from defending him to coming out against him it's because he didn't know it was wrong....come on...

He was weird yes, and it was very, very wrong IMHO to have sleepovers. I wouldn't do it or let my kids do it, but paedophile. Not a word I would use for him no.

Their stories matching, these aren't two random people who have never met each other before. How long do you think it would have taken to make their stories match?

Tell you what though, if I were one of these victims, I wouldn't be looking to claim a penny from his estate. Not only would I not want any money from anything to do with him, it would add credibility to my cause. To not have any anything else to gain except justice, true justice. That is all I would be seeking. These guys are just after the money, I would put my house on it.

certainlymerry · 06/03/2019 23:33

Totally chilling. We are staying in a hotel which was playing Michael Jackson music at dinner. I asked them to turn it off. They seemed bemused...
I believe the accounts of these men. I also find the mothers unbelievable. They still seem to look back with pleasure on what happened. It’s chilling and totally negligent.