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Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

999 replies

SachaStark · 06/03/2019 15:51

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

OP posts:
ccmrob12 · 08/03/2019 12:57

The fact is you need evidence. If it happened how these two say it happened, there would be have been something, a smoking gun along the way. The FBI were on him for years and years. There is no way he could have hidden it, not every ounce of it. Not possible. They say in the accounts phone calls were made, faxes were sent. The FBI would have been able to trace these and give the evidence. The fact they couldn’t despite trying so hard to do so if why I’m confident what they are saying is not true. That’s not even getting to the fact they can’t get their story straight, even now.

It’s not bling belief that Michael could do no wrong. My eyes and ears were very open to the fact there couldn’t have been something going one for a long time during these cases.

All we have to go off now is credibility and motive. They have no credibility, they may be believable in their accounts in the documentary, which is what most are going off, but it’s not credible. And there are hundreds of millions of motives that they have the have their appeal successfull. Like someone else said, as this stage if they dropped their claim to any compensation and just went after the truth, then that might count in their favour. The fact they are after money is only going to increase their motive.

I am not a paedophile apologiser as there has never been any evidence that Michael was a paedophile. If there is evidence then I’m all ears.

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 08/03/2019 12:59

My eyes and ears were very open to the fact there couldn’t have been something going one for a long time during these cases.

Not quite believing that one.

calpop · 08/03/2019 13:00

Oprah asks Wade about the money question. He gives a convincing answer, I think. At the time of the documentary being released neither man is actually actively pursuing a financial claim, although the potential is still there:

Safechuck and Robson have filed civil complaints against the Jackson estate, which have been dismissed due to the statute of limitations. Those cases remain on appeal.

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 08/03/2019 13:01

MJ was my childhood idol
having looked at everything objectively (and I have, and yes that has hurt at times and I have seriously wondered!) I don't believe.

Colour me shocked.

Ribbonsonabox · 08/03/2019 13:02

Yep all those rape cases that get dropped through lack of evidence... the victim was lying every time! Someone cant be a rapist and abuser without any forensic evidence... if it's just one word against another then they are obviously innocent... no matter if loads of people come forward... unless we have bloody knickers and CCTV footage then everyone should just shut up!

FFS

ccmrob12 · 08/03/2019 13:02

Believe what you want Fiddle. I’m not going to lose sleep over it.

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 08/03/2019 13:02

The things people are saying about these men and the insults that are flying about... all to defend MJ... cant they see what they are doing to other survivors of sexual abuse?

They don't care about victims of abuse. They care about Jackson.

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 08/03/2019 13:03

Believe what you want Fiddle. I’m not going to lose sleep over it

No, you're just going to post essay after essay.

calpop · 08/03/2019 13:04

The fact is you need evidence

I don't. My friend that was abused by their step father years before I met them doesn't have any evidence. There isn't any. It happened when they were alone in the bedroom. It's their word against his.

That doesnt mean I can't see the trauma and damage it's done to them and their lives in the 20 subsequent years I've known them. It doesn't give me any trouble believing them.

SaveKevin · 08/03/2019 13:05

I’m not sure what evidence there could be?
Those faxes he sent wade are fucking awful.

TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge · 08/03/2019 13:05

Hysteria at its finest

ccmrob12 · 08/03/2019 13:06

Well and straight and consistent story might help to start with. No one said there has to be bloody pants for or CCTV.

Why are people dismissing a lengthy federal investigation, when they put everything possible into finding something. There fact they could not even find anything on phone taps when wade said Michael phoned him during the trials, it makes no sense Ribbons. None at all.

BusterGonad · 08/03/2019 13:06

Reading some people's posts on here is harrowing, no wonder victims of sexual abuse keep it to themselves.
I don't know how anyone can possibly believe a man who shared his bed with 7 year olds isn't perverted and a paedo!

HowlsMovingBungalow · 08/03/2019 13:06

Apt username.

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 08/03/2019 13:07

@Dulra
I checked content for you - first 20 minutes, you have 10 minutes of Wade's upbringing/competition in which he got the chance to meet Michael then 4 minutes of James's upbringing/his Pepsi commercial with MJ then it returns to MJs Brisbane concert/Wade's meet n greet.
Sexual molestation is mentioned from the off in terms of the sentence He was loving gentle etc but also molested me but NO details are given in the first 20 minutes.
You see the zombie thriller face 4 minutes in.
Hope this helps you - your DD has not seen anything in that first segment that is damaging as it is just footage at that point. At 20 minutes Wade and his mother describe both being in Jackson's room on his bed at a second meeting - maybe your DD thought it was going to get grim at that point so switched off or maybe she got bored.
If that is all she saw though, you shouldn't worry - I would nonetheless use it as an opportunity to warn against predatory behaviour in any case. Brew Cake

ccmrob12 · 08/03/2019 13:07

You don’t know me or whether I care about victims of abuse Fiddle, bit if a sweeping statement. I think hysteria is the right word.

BusterGonad · 08/03/2019 13:08

How lovely if you Rage.

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 08/03/2019 13:09

Hysteria at its finest

When in doubt go for a MN cliché.

Ribbonsonabox · 08/03/2019 13:12

It makes perfect sense when you look at any example of his behaviour around children! If it were any other human being no one would be defending him. No one.

GinUnicorn · 08/03/2019 13:24

I believe them. Speaking up is difficult and with someone like MJ they will have super fans hounding them maybe for life.

Abuse is harrowing enough but knowing the public scrutiny you would get in this instance. I’d be stunned if there weren’t many more who won’t speak out.

In terms of grooming too I think people have to consider the confusion, manipulation and shame they experienced at such a young age. Emotionally it might take years to be able to process that.

Additionally I think anyone who shared their bed continually with a series of boys aged around 11-14 but not from 14 onwards would be treated with suspicion and rightly so. Most paedophiles have an preferential age range.

I do believe there are very few instances of false accusations when it comes to rape and sexual abuse and sadly some of the backlash they have experienced (just take a look on Twitter) demonstrates why.

MinisterforCheekyFuckery · 08/03/2019 13:24

If it were any other human being no one would be defending him. No one.

Exactly.

If he was Brian the Driving Instructor or Keith who works in Morrisons then no reasonable person would think there was an innocent explanation for an adult man sharing his bed with a revolving door of children he isn't related to, lavishing gifts on them, developing intense "friendships" with them and then replacing them when they stopped looking like little boys. No one would care that if he'd been abused as a child or make excuses for his bizarre behaviour, no one would see him as a "harmless eccentric". No one would accept "but he just loves children" as the reason why he kept rooms full of toys in a house where no children actually live. People would see the behaviour for what it was: signs of sexual interest in children, because that is the most obvious explanation for his behaviour. If he wasn't a superstar then no one would care to look beyond the obvious.

TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge · 08/03/2019 13:26

Fiddle grow the fuck up and stop bandying around shit and trying to fit everything to your opinion and agenda.

It is hysteria at work. On both sides.

MegaBat · 08/03/2019 13:32

@ccmrob12 you're wrong - you are a paedophile apologiser. Yuk

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 08/03/2019 13:36

Fiddle grow the fuck up and stop bandying around shit and trying to fit everything to your opinion and agenda.

^ non-hysterical reaction

PickledLimes · 08/03/2019 13:37

I keep seeing fans referencing a ten year investigation into the allegations but according to the FBI's own website they only offered some assistance to California Law Enforcement Agencies when requested.
" Between 1993 and 1994 and separately between 2004 and 2005, Jackson was investigated by California law enforcement agencies for possible child molestation. He was acquitted of all such charges. The FBI provided technical and investigative assistance to these agencies during the cases."

That is not a ten year FBI lead investigation into the allegations.