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Telly addicts

James Bulger - New Revelations

186 replies

SchadenfreudePersonified · 14/11/2018 21:17

Just watching this - wondered if anyone else was interested in discussing it

OP posts:
JediJim · 14/11/2018 22:28

I always wondered what would have happened if they were not caught. What if the cctv wasn’t working? Would they have ever owned up? Would they have killed again? I shudder to think what else could have happened if they hadn’t been arrested soon afterwards.

trumpdump · 14/11/2018 22:34

I find it odd that they aren't allowed to contact each other. Surely it might help them both come to terms with things if they could speak to the only other person that understands how they feel?

Does anyone know? Were they housed together? Or have they not spoken since the initial arrest?

Josiebloggs · 14/11/2018 22:35

I thought Jon Venables was the ring leader, he had previous for being violent to children, he was the one who instigated leading Jon away and certain elements of the murder tie in with other things he has done.
I think there was probably far more abuse, at least in his home, than we will ever know.
Repeated abuse from a very young age can change the way your brain works and your behaviour, they would still understand it was wrong though and should be tried as such.
JV sobbing saying sorry was likely his usual defence mechanism whilst staying silent was RTs. If RTs father was as brutal as is suggested he likely frowned upon crying or begging and silence and showing zero emotion could be a learnt survival behaviour and nothing more.

Hubbleisback · 14/11/2018 22:35

I had a son who was exactly the same age as JB and was sickened. But I felt then and feel now that there were 3 child victims in this sad story.

JediJim · 14/11/2018 22:42

Trumpdump, Thompson and Venables have never met since the trial. They have been banned from contacting eachother since their release. Yes I kind of feel that there were 3 victims too.
To think that people could have stopped this happening (passers by) . So horrible.

Andro · 14/11/2018 22:46

Surely it might help them both come to terms with things if they could speak to the only other person that understands how they feel?

Not necessarily! A lot will depend on personality and the response each had to the counselling they received, the combination will have defined the people they became. There was probably a concern that they would bring the absolute worst out in each other, so keeping them apart was for the best.

Time has shown that one is walking the straight and narrow (we hope, otherwise he's doing a really good job of hiding it), while the other is a menace to society. One the surface at least, the system worked for one but not the other.

JediJim · 14/11/2018 22:48

But as for guilt, wouldn’t the guilt be too much to live with? Surely they must have thought of ending it all?

Ontopofthesunset · 14/11/2018 22:52

If you're not prepared to accept that something 'environmental' may have happened to Thomson and Venables to make them behave as they did, then you have to accept that the baby you're carrying or the toddler you're cuddling right now might be just be plain evil and born that way and there's nothing you can do about it. Most people wouldn't be able to think that about their own children, so why should it be true of any children?

Electrascoffee · 14/11/2018 22:52

I read 'The Sleep of Reason' which I found disturbing of course. But it starts by saying children murdering other children isn't as rare as we think and that when it happened in Norway (I think) the public had a very different reaction than what we had here in the UK.

Electrascoffee · 14/11/2018 22:54

It would seem that Thompson, despite being depicted as the more 'evil' of the two at the time has been successfully rehabilitated?

OneStepMoreFun · 14/11/2018 23:03

What was the Norwegian reaction Elektra?

GiantKitten · 14/11/2018 23:04

I remember reading this article about Thompson at the time (2010). Obv we can't know how accurate it is but it reads convincingly. He seems to have benefited from his experiences in the YO unit.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1256109/Robert-Thompson-Social-worker-looked-James-Bulger-killer-speaks.html

GiantKitten · 14/11/2018 23:06

The Norwegian boys were younger

www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2010/mar/20/norway-town-forgave-child-killers

AbsentmindedWoman · 14/11/2018 23:06

Thompson might well keep his head down and attempt to live a quiet life, but really we don't know how his mental health is. There could be plenty of self harm or functioning alcoholism or suicide attempts, that we just won't know about. He could be utterly screwed up still, but act inwards instead of act out like the other one.

My heart goes out to the parents of James. It is truly the stuff of nightmares.

AbsentmindedWoman · 14/11/2018 23:09

I don't believe children are born evil. That's nonsense bordering on the superstitious.

Genetics loads the gun, and environment pulls the trigger.

namechangeninetynine · 14/11/2018 23:15

I wonder if Thompson perhaps was the leader who led venables

But compared to his home life his time in secure unit rehabilitated him

And venables was the follower

But compared to his home life his time in secure unit damaged him, after all his secure home had the worker abusing him rather than caring for him

And so the roles seem reversed now they're adults

redrhubarb · 14/11/2018 23:17

I can't bear to watch this. Every time their faces appear on the tv or newspaper I feel physically sick!

There is no excuse for what they did to poor little James and his family, it was just pure evil.

nozzel · 14/11/2018 23:26

I really feel for Denise & Ralph so let down by the judiciary system time and time again. Those boys knew exactly what they were doing. Thompson, a savvy 10 year old who regularly shoplifted from the the age of 7 & Venables violent & unpredictable. Yes they both had awful childhoods, but plenty of people do, who don't go & abduct, torture and murder a beautiful 2 year old. They should have never been released.

MrDonut · 15/11/2018 00:11

On another forum someone linked to the Facebook page of one of the girls who had tortured and killed Shanda Sharer. She seemed "normal", had a partner and kids and was bitching about haters giving her a hard time. It was very weird.

Rachelover40 · 15/11/2018 00:24

I'm going to watch this programme sometime soon, maybe in bits.
I remember there was another, quite indepth and non-gratuitous, programme about the killers of James Bulger on TV a while ago, featuring interviews with police, solicitor, maybe reports, I can't remember. I felt terribly lost and sad after watching it.

I'm presuming this programme is not a repeat of that.

abacucat · 15/11/2018 00:35

Repeated abuse from a very young age can change the way your brain works and your behaviour

But it is untrue to state this as a universal fact. My first serious BF came from a seriously awful family. He was not violent, and to escape, joined the army very young. He had no adults in his young life that were not abusive to him. But how people react to abuse is also determined by their own personality. Of course his abusive family had an impact, but the result was not to create a violent child or a violent man.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 15/11/2018 07:23

One hopes he made a vow to himself to turn his life around and try to be a decent member of society

And as others have said - he could well be tortured by his own part in the; he might wake up sobbing every night; he might well struggle with suicide on a daily basis - we don't know.

Elektra - I remember (vaguely) that incident in Norway - I, too, was impressed by the way it was handled - they didn't have crowds of 00s of adults chasing the police van, banging on the sides, baying for blood. I can't remember a great deal about it, but your brief account sis ring a bell - I might search for it

Shanda Sharer - I hadn't heard of this poor child - horrible. The girls who murdered her were older. All seem t have experienced abuse.

I think, as someone said earlier on the thread, it is often a combination of early life experiences coupled with a hideous meeting up of other children with similar experiences, one of whom is a "leader" (I did read once that "leadership" was an honest, socially acceptable use of psychopathy). I think, as well, that a suitable victim has to become available. When this combination occurs, anything can happen.

When you think of even "normal" ordinary people caught up in a mob situation - they lose all sense of responsibility and control and the "pack" instinct to bring down and kill just takes over. This is a situation that any of us could find ourselves in - and it is partly (I would think) an instinct of self-preservation - you can't be seen to be fighting against the prevailing pack behaviour, or you, too, become a victim.

The girls who murdered Shanda will not have dared, once they had started, to have backed down. As I understand it (and I'm NOT a psychologist, nor am I particularly well-read, but I do find this topic interesting) there is almost always a "leader" who holds the others in thrall - not unlike any group of children in any playground, except of course, that these are damaged and dangerous children.

A hurt child - or adult - often has a tremendous need to lash out at the world that did this to them.

Repeated abuse from a very young age can change the way your brain works and your behaviour

This must invariably happen, though it may not make a murderer - it may make a timid, anxious person, or one who flies off the handle for nothing, or any range of behaviours. As a PP said (something like) "genetics loads the guns and society fires it". I really believe that most violent behaviour has its roots in fear, even when that fear is so deep and so long ago, it is consciously forgotten. This is why it is so dangerous - response to it becomes an instinct, and fighting an instinct is difficult in the extreme.

OP posts:
redrhubarb · 15/11/2018 07:31

Why are you trying to find excuses for what they did ?

chocahoop · 15/11/2018 07:47

No one is making excuses, you're trying to shut down discussion about what led to these boys committing such a horrific act. It's ok to discuss that. It's what criminologists do the world over.

MrDonut · 15/11/2018 07:51

Why are you trying to find excuses for what they did ?

I don't think anyone is making excuses for what they did. I just think they are trying to understand why they did what they did.

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