James Bulger - New Revelations

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

Just watching this - wondered if anyone else was interested in discussing it

How far back?? I think it's reasonable as to go as far back as a 10 year old child's parents when they have behaved so badly towards said child.

Jilly I agree. It seems mad that the parents were not held accountable at least in the eyes of the law. I think Thompson was the ring leader, yes Venables has been arrested for disgusting crimes, but he outed himself to his friends that ultimately got him arrested.Thompson it appears just carried on with his life with no sense of guilt.

what is thompson supposed to do, out of interest, other than live a normal life?

On Channel 5 Mumma

I don’t know what Thompson is supposed to do. But serious question, how do you sleep at night and carry on living after doing this? I mean how would you live with the guilt?

Many children have experienced horrific childhoods. A lot of them turn to alcohol, drugs, petty crime, toxic relationships etc. Not many turn into murderers

It’s to do with the type of abuse and neglect , the age of the child when it happens, the child’s personality and any protective factors.

Good point Jilly - could anyone"normal" put the horror of what they were responsible for behind them? You'd think it would haunt their every waking and sleeping moment.

How far back?? I think it's reasonable as to go as far back as a 10 year old child's parents when they have behaved so badly towards said child.

But then there is the argument that the grandparents must have done something terrible the the parents when they were children for them to be cruel to their own kids. Does the brutality accumulate, generation upon generation? How do we step in and break that cycle?

I can't imagine what poor little James must have suffered - what his parents are still suffering - but if psychologists can find a way to spot the early signs, and to stop the behaviour, it may prevent another baby being murdered like this.

It seems from the programme that although Thompson was the one who was considered to be the leader, in prison he was the one who appeared to be genuinely remorseful.

I am sure he does feel guilt, but there comes a point where acceptance is vital.

how do you sleep at night and carry on living after doing this? I mean how would you live with the guilt?

Perhaps he doesn't. How will any of us ever know?

We have absolutely no idea if Jon
Thompson feels no sense of guilt. All we know is that since his release he's kept his head down, held down a job and not been in trouble again. I've watched a documentary where staff at the secure unit he was kept were interviewed and they said that while Venebles showed remorse and admitted guilt immediately, it took Thompson years to do so. However he did accept responsibility for his crime and expressed extreme remorse in the end.

It was Jon that said in the interviews 'tell his mum I'm sorry'.
So he was sorry as soon as they were caught.
I'm now wondering who the other poor sods living in that children's home with them were.
There is research around trauma being passed down through families.
I know from my own family, traumas get passed on. Not making excuses at all for what those boys did.

Which was the one of them that was also abused by a worker in the secure home?

Out of interet who would know their actual identities? I guess their probation officers, maybe the Home Secretary? I mean they are monitored for life aren’t they..

Yes Jilly, I've thought that too, JV completely messed up because of it/the aftermath.. the whole thing is so awful and I can't imagine the grief for his poor parents.

I think that was Jon venables namechange.
I guess those are the only people who would know their real identities.
Do they have to tell life partners?
Imagine having kids with either of them and not knowing. Makes my skin crawl to be honest.

I thin it was a very thoughtful programme - it wasn't prurient, it didn't go into the hideous details (which always worries me, because I'm afraid that such details give damaged people ideas they may not otherwise have had), but rather opened the possibility of looking at the why and the how, and the importance of trying to understand the injury that can occur in a young, developing psyche if the only examples of behaviour they have to follow are cruelty, neglect, bullying, and rage, and the terror that this implants in the minds of vulnerable children. If society is lucky, they only become prostitutes and drug addicts (as a PP mentioned), but others, perhaps more vulnerable - perhaps even capable of more tenderness and empathy if they were brought up with loving care - perhaps these form such a protective shell around themselves that they CAN'T relate to others at all.

It makes me wonder about all of the the serial killers etc whose childhood are supposed to have been ordinary, or where there are reports of their parents being supportive and loving - is that really true? Or have things happened behind closed doors that no-one knows about, and that certainly no-one will admit to?

Yes Jilly they would have to tell any partner who they are. I would imagine they would have meetings with a probation officer. I’d guess they would have limited job opportunities too.
Would they still be in danger today?

Really can not watch this, my son was the same age when this happened to that beautiful child and I still feel a shock in my core to this very day.

I hope they are haunted by it for the rest of their lives. I hope they see James in their heads all day and all night. And if there is an after life, God help them.

I'm not watching, but I was 12yo when the murder happened. The details I should not have read, but made me feel sick to my stomach and horrified at the time. I have a 2yo at the moment and just feel sick again to be reminded.
I don't think there can be any excuse for the premeditated, callous and sustained torture they inflicted on James.

I'd always had the impression it was actually Jon Venables who had the more disturbing family background. Is that not right then?

Last time I looked into it, there were reports that Robert Thompson was living with another man in a gay relationship and his partner knew who he really was.

I have not watched this OP, but I remember at the time many of the papers carried pictured of the 10 year olds with the headline EVIL. I found this disturbing and always felt that parents who left their children alone all day to watch violent films were to some extent culpable for the murder. It was at least evidence of neglect and the parents should have been prosecuted. If the two boys were damaged in other ways too it might explain the desensitisation. I do hear what you say about generations of abuse though. Perhaps the blame lies with ignorance about and failure to deal with mental health issues early on.

Thompson feels no sense of guilt. All we know is that since his release he's kept his head down, held down a job and not been in trouble again.

To me, that says something. One hopes he made a vow to himself to turn his life around and try to be a decent member of society.

It shows these human tragedies aren't binary, people aren't all good or all evil, we will never know what possessed them to cause JB such harm, nor what thoughts have gone through their head since.

Do you really hope that, @JediJim?