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The handmaids tale-thread 6

829 replies

SisterNotCisTerf · 12/08/2018 22:11

Let’s get June out of there!

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EmpressOfSpartacus · 14/08/2018 21:55

There was that flashback where Serena got shot in her abdomen though. The assumption is that that made her infertile.

JynxaSmoochum · 14/08/2018 21:58

Although the wives have their uniform, the styling is more varied and quite elegant. Their hair is neatly styled and not covered. Definitely higher status than the Handmaids and Marthas. Maybe they can be trusted more to be less plain (as well as more pleasurable to their commanders...)

JynxaSmoochum · 14/08/2018 21:59

Women are also generally to blame for being sterile not male infertility Hmm

RiaOverTheRainbow · 14/08/2018 22:03

I think when a commander has been married for X years with no children his wife is considered infertile and he becomes eligible for a handmaid. Handmaids are in short supply so not every commander has one.

TangelasVine · 14/08/2018 22:06

In the book if I remember correctly the infertility is due to the nuclear war. A lot of the babies born are stillborn or very poorly - I think they called them shredders.

BlessedBeTheFruitLoop · 14/08/2018 22:07

Yes under the new 'law' only women can be considered infertile, not men, even when the problem is clearly with them. I read an interview with one of the show's writers and he said that the location of Serena's gunshot wound was chosen to ensure it wouldn't be fatal, rather than a way to make her infertile. So I wonder if there'll a baby for Serena in the future.

Flaskfan · 14/08/2018 22:20

There might, if she goes to Hawaii...

MazDazzle · 14/08/2018 22:20

In the book, the wives buy things on the black market. That’s how Serena gets cigarettes. Maybe they get make up that way?

If Serena did go on to have a child, it would be interesting who the father is! Presuming that Fred is infertile?

Flaskfan · 14/08/2018 22:21

Also thought it interesting that 'artificial' conception is outlawed, but Serena was all for medical induction.

MazDazzle · 14/08/2018 22:25

To me Nick is like a gawpy teenager: sweet but unappealing. He reminds me of Shitbreak from American Pie!

The handmaids tale-thread 6
heidipi · 14/08/2018 23:24

Re infertility of course the book was written in the early 80s, so before fertility treatment as we know it and so much that we take for granted. Watching series 1 I wondered why Gilead didn't use IVF with the handmaids as donors/surrogates but of course the book predates the success and acceptance of IVF as a standard procedure. I suppose the nuclear impact on the birthrate could have ruled this out. [Overinvested face]

BlessedBeTheFruitLoop · 14/08/2018 23:37

I think it was more about creating a new power structure than creating babies. Having 'the ceremony' once a month with (probably) infertile men, without even the benefit of ovulation tests etc. Hardly likely to result in many babies. If it was about getting as many pregnancies as possible, they would have ensured the fertility of the men and insisted on 'the ceremony' as many times as possible. And the wives of childbearing age should have been allowed their own "handboys" too Wink

Flaskfan · 14/08/2018 23:41

Not only that, but I remember gcse re lessons in the 90s, where we had to debate the ethical issues surrounding ivf (Catholic school), so I can see why Gilead would eschew medical intervention. It's the whole 'only God gets to decide life ir death' thing.

ToeToToe · 15/08/2018 00:09

In series 1, you hear the men discussing the ways they can get their wives "to agree" with them raping the handmaids - by calling it a ceremony, and reading bible passages about Rachel & Leah.

They've, in some ways, gone back to simpler biblical times - the episode where the Waterfords went to Canada was very reminiscent of the Amish, I thought. Women are oppressed, men are dominant in every way. Except the men need the women to gestate the babies...

ToeToToe · 15/08/2018 00:12

It frightens me, how many men I know irl, who I have a sneaking suspicion they would be all for having women around just for sex on demand, to have the babies, and perform the domestic tasks for them. They don't dare say it to us (most of them) - but it's just there hanging in the air. Demonstrated through their behaviour.

Iggi999 · 15/08/2018 07:06

The men must be happy not to have to compete with women for any jobs = full employment and a big ego boost

inquiquotiokixul · 15/08/2018 07:26

YY @ToeToToe

Reminds me of the quote Women have very little idea of how much men hate them from Greer's The Female Eunuch.

Roussette · 15/08/2018 08:02

To me Nick is like a gawpy teenager: sweet but unappealing
Ditto! I can't get the Nick love at all. To me he's like a boy playing at being a man, trying to do brooding looks but it just doesn't come off.

As far as the wives, I think they look elegant (this is probably the wrong thing to say!) The dresses, the heels, the coiffed hair etc. I seem to remember when Fred beat Serena, her underwear was just ordinary bra and pants. Whereas the handmaids have to wear horrendous big pants, or pataloons and vests or whatever. I suppose that's to make them unattractive and debase them just to a vessel to carry offspring.

Another thing I noticed different in the last episode compared to S1... the handmaids were almost 'chatting' whilst walking along the river. In S1 they couldn't talk at all and were admonished very strongly by guards if they did. I wonder if now all this has happened, the Gilead rules will be tightened up again.

One thing I hope doesn't happen in S3.... I hope it doesn't concentrate on a Nick/Luke thing with June having to make a choice... I hope it's about the overthrow of Gilead, the underground resistance etc. I want a happy ending! I don't actually care who she ends up with as long as Gilead is beaten!

BlessedBeTheFruitLoop · 15/08/2018 08:18

We're really the first generation where it's usual for mums to go out to work - required to, even, due to the cost of living these days. Even thinking back 30 years ago, our mums were expected to stay at home and there weren't many 'career mothers'. You could comfortably live on the man's salary as houses, food, bills were all much cheaper. Some women worked of course - either through choice or necessity - but they were the minority and regularly looked down upon. Now it's usual for kids to be at nursery while mums work, and to be a SAHM is considered a luxury few can 'afford' due to the rising cost of living. But it makes you realise how fragile the working mother concept is, being such a recent development. We think it's due to progress in equality of the sexes, but is it? Or are we just the 'blip' and future generations will be 'chained to the kitchen sink' as previous ones were, because equality is gradually being eroded away again (not so gradually in some places, and in others it never changed). In the western world, the internet has been instrumental in us gaining a voice and a presence that previous "feminist movements" never could. What would happen if the internet was taken away? How quickly would we lose heart in 'the fight' when we don't know who else is fighting it alongside us? The resilience of each individual woman would much depend on the people around them - how many men REALLY want equality for women, and how many are just towing the party line because this enlightened time requires them to, for fear of being publically "outed" otherwise - usually online? How easily they could form their own "movement' against women's freedoms, if the women have their voices silenced. Like ToeToToe, I know a lot of men who would happily join that movement. There will be husbands who truly respect their wives' choice to work and want them to be independent women, mother or not. But there are many, many more who would secretly enjoy their wives having to remain at home, barefoot and pregnant and cooking their dinner. Only it's not PC to say so these days. They're the ones who joke about 'a woman's place' in the pub and at family parties with a pat on the arse, while we roll our eyes and tut but ultimately shrug it off with a laugh. Because it's just a joke, right? But it has a ring of truth about it. And there are just as many men who don't care about making a secret of their opinion that a woman belongs at home. Many women think that way too - especially the older generations. Never mind the fact that many women would want to stay at home, given the choice. But that choice has been taken away from them by the econominic demands of this time (ironically, created after decades of male influence). And even if the cost of living suddenly decreased to the extent more mothers could stay at home, how many of us would continue to go out to work because we want to? And then no doubt we'd be back to 30 years ago, being considered less womanly somehow because we would rather work than stay at home with the children.

So as much as we hope we're changing things for future generations, it could so easily fall apart. I think that's why THT resonates with so many of us.

TangelasVine · 15/08/2018 08:39

That's what June's mother was saying really. That the current rights of women is all so fragile and she continues to protest. June doesn't really listen to her as she doesn't think she needs to.
Actually this has now made me think that perhaps now June has turned into her mother by acts of resistance within Gilead. And Serena is the one that thought she didn't need to listen for about 2 seasons.

And yes agree that sexism is still around. Only got to look at comments online around any rape trial or Twitter to easily see what many true opinions are. Safely hidden behind a keyboard.

Last thought is if Emily escapes she is proof of the regime carrying out FGM. They hid anyone with visible injuries from foreign visitors didn't they.

Lumpy76 · 15/08/2018 08:46

After I’d watched the first series (I’ve also read the book as a teenager) I said to my husband and two oldest children (girl/boy ages 17 and almost 16) that it should be compulsory studying at school! There is so much for us to learn from it!

Flaskfan · 15/08/2018 08:50

Kids can do it at A level. Unfortunately, lit a level numbers are dropping massively due to a. Gcse lit being shit and b. Kids being told that stem subjects are their golden ticket to megabucks. Not that I'm bitter, or anything.but there's no yr 12 lit group in my school for the first time ever because you need 10 to make it viable

BlessedBeTheFruitLoop · 15/08/2018 09:05

The whole "freedom to, and freedom from" concept resonates with me too. And how "better doesn't mean better for everyone". From June's perspective she's worse off, but what if the story had been told from the second Ofglen's perspective? Former prostitute, drug addict and rough sleeper, now only required to have "The Ceremony" once a month and has a safe place to live and people looking after her. Yes she sees other women being tortured when they 'misbehave', but she'll have seen worse on the street and heard worse on the news. Now at least there's a logic to the violence so she knows by behaving properly she'll be safe. If told from her perspective, would we be rooting for her to escape like we do with June? For every June in Gilead, there are probably two Ofglens who are "better off" now. Then you have the women like Serena, who started with good intentions and is now forced to watch her ideological society being corrupted by men for their own gains. A monster of her own creation, and a runaway train that she's now powerless to stop. She's just another passenger along for the ride and I can't wait to see how she deals with that in S3.

TheGoldenWolfFleece · 15/08/2018 09:13

Am I imagining it or are most of the Marthas we've seen ethnic minorities?

theredjellybean · 15/08/2018 09:16

Blessedbethefruitloops.. It's janine who was the drug addict gang raped prostitute.
She definitely says in series 1 and in the book that her life is effectively better under gilead. Then there is a change when she has baby Charlotte. I always interpreted it that she, like many on her situation, wanted someone to love them, and someone to love.. A baby loves them unconditionally,
Janine thought the commander loved her, she mistook his manipulative kindness as love, as often women with her history do.
But then they took her baby and it came crashing down.
She seems to have retreated into religion as a way to protect herself from the reality that life under gilead is not better.