The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 (UK Pace) - thread 4

[CruCru]

Hi all

Here is the next thread for those who are watching The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 on Channel 4. Please don't put any spoilers on this - the other thread (for those in other countries who are watching ahead of the UK) is:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3239228-Handmaids-Tale-Season-2-SPOILERS-VIEWING-AHEAD-OF-UK-SREENING

Someone on the last thread asked for a link to the previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3216737-The-Handmaid-s-Tale-Season-2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3269725-The-Handmaids-Tale-Season-2-UK-Pace-thread-2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3290403-The-Handmaids-Tale-Season-2-UK-Pace-thread-3?pg=38

I wonder if the Mackenzie’s were actually Mayday or at least sympathetic to the mayday cause, if not active members - the books, the radio station...

I wonder who was in the car that draws up and hoping the baby is alive, not still born as pp are suggesting.

I was wondering about that.

Perhaps the MacKenzies didn't want to rape a woman each month. Perhaps they are progressive or unorthodox enough to not like this aspect of Gilead.

Perhaps they were not of a high enough status to get a handmaid.

Perhaps they were of such a high status that they were guaranteed a child immediately without the wait for a handmaid to conceive.

Perhaps they weren't so worried about having a baby and we happy to 'adopt' an older child.

Perhaps they were so desperate to have a child they didn't want to wait for a baby.

There are so many possibilities I would love to know more about how it was decided.

This is the only thing I think might be good about more than one more series. We might find out more about all these other characters.

Everything suggests that the Mackenzies were a happy, loving family.

I'm convinced that Holly is fine @Invisimama.

The writers are not going to miss the chance for Serena to get her hands on a baby so we can all be tortured by wanting June to get her back.

I can understand her still having a faith. From personal experience, it is still possible to believe in God even when treated very badly by people who are probably best described as religious zealots. A relationship with God is a very personal thing.

I am belatedly joining the discussion. Loving all the wolf symbolism, I never think of these things!

I couldn't watch the argument between Serena and the Commander because my head was in my hands with terror that June was going to get discovered.

Loved the birth scene. I defo think the baby is alive. And I think June will have to give her up somehow/when.

I desperately want the car to be MayDay, or for radio-listening Commander Mackenzie to be kind, but I am not hopeful. I think she's in Gilead for its downfall, mainly because of how in the book her transcribed story is found but she isn't. But I can but hope...

I could not work out what happened with Nick and the guards but think it's odd that the Waterfords don't yet know that he has been carted off the some apparent Eyes. Wouldn't they have immediately let them know?

I think it's interesting that most of this episode is from Offred's perspective so we have no idea what is going on in Gilead while she is missing. maybe the revolution?

Going back to what someone said earlier, about Serena's part in Gilead and who was the driving force in their relationship, wasn't there a bit in the last series about how she was instrumental in its forming because of a book she wrote about domestic feminism? I also thought she was infertile before being shot, I thought there was a general infertiilty crisis because of an unexplained radioactive event (hence the colonies).

It is a long time ago since I read the book though.

I don't reckon we'll hear any more about Aunt Lydia's back story. About which I cried buckets.

I don't see Gilead as Christian - apart from the specific references to the use of handmaid's they don't mention God, Jesus or any of the other teachings. I see it as showing that religious zealots (such as ISIS) do not care about the spirit of their faith. It' s only really about power for them.

Yes, Gilead takes things from Christianity but to a warped extreme. I can see that strengthening your faith in a kinder, more loving God.

I'm not a Christian but I know enough about it that I would have a running commentary about pharisees going on in my head if I had to walk through Gilead! I think that kind, of actually No, if there is a God, I don't I don't believe that they think gay people are gender traitors, that doesn't fit with what I know. And having to have these conversations with yourself all the time as there is no one safe to public discuss it with - can slowly turn into a private faith in the tolerant, loving God that you were sceptical of previously.

I hope that's not too mangled an explanation.

But an awful lot of refugees come out of horrible situations still believing.

If it came down to it and June ends up in Canada, or elsewhere, with both Nick and Luke, who do you think she would choose to be with? I think Nick. I think they've gone through so much trauma together that they've bonded so much that she could never really get back together with Luke again.

I think Nick too.

I think she'd initially go back to Luke but that it wouldn't work in the long term.
I'm not sure about Nick. At the moment he's her only option for any chance of escape (that she knows of anyway) and a real relationship would be very different.
I think she'll find it difficult with either of them. Although a lot might depend on if she has the baby with her. That'd make it difficult with Luke.

I think it may be Nick if he survives, but not Luke at all.

Luke has never lived in Gilead, and I'm not sure that June will ever leave it even if she escapes.

She's been there for so long in such a horrific and oppressive regime, that she and the others will likely need years of therapy to recover and leave it behind.

I can imagine her forty years later, safe in Canada with two grown daughters in Hannah and Holly, probably with grandchildren, perhaps living as her mother Holly had lived, no man in her life, working for empowering women and trying to ensure Gilead never happens anywhere else, and someone making a "What a lovely day" comment and "Praise be" just slipping out of her mouth before she realises it and just for a moment she will be in Gilead again.

Nick, at least, will understand everything without having to be told, he was there, he saw it all with her. Luke will probably never understand his wife or his daughter again, not completely.

And he would have to accept and love Holly. Who he thinks is Fred's daughter and would have to be told she was Nick's, which opens up a new thing for him to come to terms with.

I don't know if June would have the patience or the inclination to get Luke through that when she has been through so much more.

He has suffered greatly by being hunted down and having his family stolen, but she's lived Gilead for years. He got out and she got caught and he won't know in the way Nick knows.

So I don't think she will reunite with Luke, if she does I don't think their marriage will last. I think it will be Nick, or nobody, or somebody completely new because she will be a different person herself if she ever gets out.

The love and joy on June's face when Nick told her that Luke is definitely alive made me want June to be reunited with her husband.

Finally caught up with Sunday's episode. I have no idea how many episodes are left; one or two?

If I was making this show, I'd have the next episode cover the same period of time as this one, but have it following Nick and the Waterfords, so we'd see Nick get taken away, we'd see Fred watching the clock, we'd see Serena get home, and then the revelation that June's not there, and eventually Fred's confession. Then Fred and Serena driving out... and driving back. We'd see Nick with Mayday/Eyes/Whoever, and stuff would happen there. In the end we would see both Nick and the Waterfords in cars, and then after the last ad break we would discover who found June.

That's just how I'd do it...

That last post of yours Hygge is spot on I've thought the same.

I can't see a happy ending for a united June and Luke due to the levels of PTSD for June and the fact that at some point she'd have to explain Holly wasn't Fred's

That's very valid points but - for me, she never told Nick she loved him. The joy on her face hearing about Luke. And sometimes you want someone who has been through what you have and sometimes you don't. Sometimes its better to have someone who knows and will support you but they will not remind you of it.
I thought Luke was a bit weak before but I'm not sure now. He's not strong like the women in the series but then none of the men are. Even Nick

I’m a nervous wreck after that episode. Not sure how much more of this I can take. I really need June to be able to escape to Canada. I don’t think I can actually sit through an episode of her back at the Waterford’s (not that they want her back so I doubt that would happen anyway) or her being tortured/ executed. Just had enough now.

If there is a 3rd series I’d like it to be about Canada and other countries going to war with Gilead.

@BlueKarou that would be interesting and I'd like to see that episode too - but it's the handmaid's tale so if she doesn't know about those scenes, we shouldn't (appreciate they have done that loads in this adaptation though).

I just want June to get out but I can't see her not being back at the waterfords for at least a while.

It's funny how we all see or prophesy different isn't it. I can't imagine June - if she had the choice - ending up with Nick, I too think he a tad weak and also I agree with PPs, the joy and love at the fact Luke was alive and Nick had actually spoken to him. I think the thought of him keeps her going and although she's latched onto Nick, I think it has just been necessity because of the awful situation in Gilead

The Mackenzies must surely be of higher status than Fred & Serena.

They've got a much bigger, more beautiful house in the country - and that's only their "summer" house.

Re Nick v Luke.

Nick doesn't really know June. He only knows her as a handmaid, not her real personality.

He might think he's in love with her, but he only really knows Offred and what little bits of June she can show without risking too much, or that she can't suppress.

So, no wonder she hasn't fallen for Nick. He's in love with someone who doesn't really exist.

I agree about Nick not really knowing June. When Nick was expressing his unhappiness about Eden and what was expected from him June said something like "oh I'm so sorry you have to fuck someone you don't want to". Nick looked quite shocked, as that was maybe the most June-like way she had spoken to him.

Thank you for the podcast recommendation - am finding the discussions there (and on here) really gripping.

Big warning... I just downloaded podcast and found myself listening to discussions after season ended... So massive spoilers

Re the Mackenzies: they were happy to ripped a child away from their biological parents and keep it for themselves because they couldn’t have one. Let’s also not forget that the Martha said that they ‘only’ beat Hannah twice. And you don’t get to be a commander in Gilead without being a shit of the highest order.

There’s nothing normal or loving about them, they’re not some kind adoptive family. They are as vile and self-serving as Serena and Fred.