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The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 (UK Pace) - thread 4

999 replies

CruCru · 17/07/2018 23:19

Hi all

Here is the next thread for those who are watching The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 on Channel 4. Please don't put any spoilers on this - the other thread (for those in other countries who are watching ahead of the UK) is:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3239228-Handmaids-Tale-Season-2-SPOILERS-VIEWING-AHEAD-OF-UK-SREENING

Someone on the last thread asked for a link to the previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3216737-The-Handmaid-s-Tale-Season-2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3269725-The-Handmaids-Tale-Season-2-UK-Pace-thread-2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3290403-The-Handmaids-Tale-Season-2-UK-Pace-thread-3?pg=38

OP posts:
colouringinagain · 23/07/2018 00:21

Other episode has really left me wrecked. The awful rape and that trauma for June, followed the next morning by seeing and leaving Hannah more trauma. How you wouldn't just mentally break down i don't know Sad

LaurieFairyCake · 23/07/2018 00:25

That rape makes just as much ‘sense’ as the other rapes. Commander wants to assert power so rapes while discussing or convincing? Serena it will bring the baby quicker (an old wives tale that has some truth)

I don’t think Serena condones the forced rape for asserting control or punishment but probably believes it will bring the baby quicker.

KissMeLikeYouMissMe · 23/07/2018 00:37

Wow......what an episode! Completely brilliant and brutal all at the same time.

The rape scene was very difficult to watch but I don't agree that it was unnecessary.....I think it was to show difference between the first scene with Emily and "the monthly ceremony" how the HM's have learnt to zone out/treat it like an unpleasant part of a job. They are all just trying to get from one day to the next. I don't think any of them would imagine what happened to June actually happening iyswim. I think this series draws you in so much that had they panned away it would have lessened what was actually taking place. You almost get inside June's head and there was no escaping that in this episode. It was horrific- but rape is. I think as pp mentioned it shows how conditioned we have become as viewers. The ceremonies were hard to watch at the start but we have become used to them. I think it was to show the lengths people will go to to get what they want.

GunpowderGelatine · 23/07/2018 00:57

What an episode! I ugly cried all the way through.

I keep having to remind myself that all this is happening in the world. It may be a work of fiction, but it's based on real life.

MrStarkIDontFeelSoGood · 23/07/2018 01:01

Sadistic and exploitative might be better terms whilst it adds to the monstrosity of Fred and Serena and solidified them as Macbeth's and so adds to the narrative that way. I really felt that in no way did the ends justify the means of what for a fictional televised work constitutes "entertainment"

LittleWingSoul · 23/07/2018 01:08

Some theories for the ending...

  1. Eden dobbed Nick in for 'liking the handmaid' so he had eyes on him all along
  1. Nick attempted reaching out to mayday on the way there or when they arrived (not sure how as we don't see any moments alone) but was intercepted by Gilead and taken down
  1. It is part of mayday's plan to get June out (unlikely, but hopeful)
  1. Fred set the whole thing up, as pp have said
ProudAunty2nine · 23/07/2018 01:49

Every emotion possible in that episode, horror, shock, disgust, happiness, sadness etc and yes I cried for the first time too!

I might be right off here but seeing June alone again in that forest at the end reminded me of the very beginning of series one, when she had just had Luke and Hannah snatched away while trying to escape there she was watching the man she loves and her daughter snatched away again just round and round in horrible circles.

Also I wasn't sure who got shot at the end maybe next week it starts as Nick comes back for her .... or is that too optimistic.

RedorBlack · 23/07/2018 05:52

I found the scene in the garden with Isaac and Eden very powerful in a quiet way. What struck me was the way Isaac, a seemingly militant guard, greeted her. He said 'hi'. Not Under his eye, or blessed evening or any of the other sanctioned greeting. Just a typical awkward Hi.

Human nature defying the training.

Chimichangaz · 23/07/2018 06:33

I absolutely love this thread. So many viewpoints and everyone sees something different, the little nuances.

I disagree with a pp who said serena assisted the rape only for the baby to come soon. She definitely wanted to reassert her authority on June; she said 'I think she enjoyed it' when she talked about the false alarm labour. I think she felt differently afterwards but it was too late. She is such a challenging character - evil yet with some humanity (not this episode though, obvs Confused)

Hygge · 23/07/2018 06:43

"The Handmaids collectively participated in an execution of a man who'd raped a Handmaid in series one"

They were told he had raped a Handmaid, but we don't know if that were true. Nobody knew which Handmaid, and we saw how gossip spreads last night with the rumours about Emily and that Commander dying after raping her.

The man was protesting his innocence, so I think it's just what they were told to get them to participate. He could have done anything, or nothing, but we'll never really know.

I hated the rape scene, and hated Fred and Serena more than ever for it. Whatever sympathy I had for Serena (it comes and goes) was gone for good from that moment.

She literally suggested raping the baby out of June, and Fred could hardly wait to go along with it. That moment where you could tell they were both thinking the same thing but they were waiting for the other one to say it out loud.

Fred: "There's nothing we can do but wait for the baby to come."
Serena: "Do you really think so?"
Fred: "I suppose there are ways that...a baby might come out sooner."

And then that silence while they looked at each other, then couldn't quite keep each others eye. They were both thinking about raping June at that moment, both for their different reasons.

Serena: "I think the best way is the most natural way."

It was horrific. They were both embarrassed by the false labour. Serena didn't get to play at her fake birth party and Fred was shown up in front of the men. First by that new young Commander who doesn't need a Handmaid, then the creepy older one asking about taking June.

It's another embarrassment on their household and neither of them liked it. Fred wanted to show his power off and Serena is like a spoilt child being told she will have to wait for her new toy.

I don't think Fred knows the baby is Nick's. I think it must be common knowledge carefully ignored that offers like the one made to June by the doctor are the most likely reason a Handmaid gets pregnant.

There is the quote about the difference between ignorance and ignoring, and how you have to work at one. Fred and the other Commanders are not ignorant of the practice, but they are ignoring it while it suits them. A baby is a status symbol and something to keep the wives busy, they can perhaps ignore how that baby came to be as long as it makes them look good.

I loved Emily kicking the dead Commander. I loved her refusing to go for help by saying "Chances are better if I stay on my back" to the wife.

I'm fairly sure it was Nick that was shot. I can't see him driving away and leaving June alone in the house. Both cars were taken. He just wouldn't have done it.

Also if he were going to do something like that, surely it would have been to the guard who was with the Martha and Hannah, then they could have taken Hannah and run.

Fred warned them not to be seen, and he warned them to be back before Serena noticed. I don't think he set them up. I don't think he has any idea that the baby is Nick's. But I do think the Waterford's will think they have taken the chance to escape when they don't come home. Serena in particular as she knows Nick is the baby's father. Fred might think it's because of the rape.

I think they were unlucky that the car was seen, those two guards didn't know June was in the house, they thought it was just Nick. I think they shot him to wound him, then took him to be questioned.

And now June will go into labour alone in that house because of the rape and the Waterford's will be to blame. Unlike a previous poster I don't want her to lose her baby to spite the Waterford's though. I know it's a programme but wishing death on a baby for spite is going too far even for THT and it would hurt June and Nick more so than anybody else.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 23/07/2018 06:44

I think Serena was definitely relishing hurting June.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 23/07/2018 06:46

I also think Nick will be wounded, not dead.

TheGoldenWolfFleece · 23/07/2018 06:55

That episode was brutal.

Luckystar1 · 23/07/2018 07:07

God that was a hard episode to watch. I cried like a baby.

I loved all of the mirroring though. June saying something like ‘it’ll be the last time I have to get onto this bed’ while in labour (sadly not the case), she grabbed one of the posts on the bed when she was having a contraction, Fred grabbed the same post as he came when he was raping her.

I’m convinced that it wasn’t Nick who was shot. I am very hopeful for next week as surely if it wasn’t to help them, then while they were with Hannah, Nick should’ve just shot the guard and got them all in the car and hightailed it out of there!

EmpressWeaponisedClitoris · 23/07/2018 07:16

"The Handmaids collectively participated in an execution of a man who'd raped a Handmaid in series one"
They were told he had raped a Handmaid, but we don't know if that were true.

In the book, Emily told June that it was a lie & the man was a Mayday agent.

She said that she'd kicked him hard in the head right at the start so she could either knock him out or kill him quickly.

DrDreReturns · 23/07/2018 07:28

Anyone else think Gareth Southgate looks like Commander Waterford? With the beard and the waistcoat?

Hygge · 23/07/2018 07:37

@Emperess - I remember that now from the book, you're right.

JynxaSmoochum · 23/07/2018 07:56

The "Ceremony" has the veneer of civility with the household lined up, the Bible and is reduced to a physical act with as little public emotion attached as possible. The rape scene stripped away that veneer and the perfunctory nod to the ceremony (quick Bible quote, usual postitions). Serena was equally complicit in setting it up, but Fred's angry "passion" and June's desperate protests followed by her quiet detachment did seem to distress Serena by the end.

I'm wondering if Fred set the Hannah meeting up believing that Hannah would be completely indoctrinated and reject June. "You deserve this". I think he has underestimated the love and bond between a mother and child.

Fred was aware that the baby wasn't his. I like the previous comment about ignoring and ignorance. He could ignore it, but did not like being made out that he was ignorant. Nick has been treading a narrow and delicate line for a long time. Fred would be happy for Nick to be dealt with. I think Fred set Nick up and is intending to scare June and assuming that she can't escape by her own means at that stage of pregnancy.

WhirlwindHugs · 23/07/2018 08:22

I didn't find the rape scenes gratuitous - though they are hard to watch. I thought the contrast with Emily's 'routine' handmaid rape at the beginning was deliberate, as they both found their experiences equally traumatising. Whereas Janine, whose backstory is gang rape that she was forced to take the blame for in the red house, very clearly compartmentalises different kinds of rape experiences (and there's no doubt she is hugely affected by what is happening as well)

I cried immensely over Hannah too. Poor children.

Oldowl · 23/07/2018 09:31

The mirroring of June telling both Martha's to protect her children, got to me.

It made me question, was being raped worth 10 minutes with your estranged child. A terrible question to ask yourself, but one easy to answer as a mother.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 23/07/2018 09:33

I find the self deceptions of the commanders and their wives so fascinating.
On the question of whether the commander had set up June and Nick or he is really trying to do a nice thing for her, I think the latter. Because I think he sees himself as a nice guy.
The violent rape was of course for her own good. He had spoiled her and needed to put her back in her place. The fact that it might also bring the baby on is just proof that it is the will of God.

ciderhouserules · 23/07/2018 09:37

I didn't find the 'rape' gratuitous either. This was obvious RAPE, not 'Gilead sex for procreation' rape. Even Fred would be condemned for it. THey knew this.

The part with 'Agnes' - so heartbreaking.

I think Nick was shot (hopefully not killed) - one said 'I don't believe you' and then shot. If Nick had shot one, they wouldn't have taken both cars?

I hadn't thought of Fred setting it all up - but that makes sense. He hates June now, and Serena as well, pretty much.

I hope there is a car in those garages in shot at the end. I hope June can find some clothes in the house - dress up as an old, pot-bellied man and drive to the border? (I dreamt about how I would do this - glue some pubes to my face as stubble, cut hair short as poss, pat some glue on face to make wrinkles, glasses, flat cap etc etc Grin)

TangelasVine · 23/07/2018 09:38

I don't know if it was a set up by the commander. A baby helps his status in Gilead and losing control of your household if he says Nick and June escaped it looks bad on him
It'd be easier for him to get rid of June after she's had the baby.

Hygge · 23/07/2018 09:44

I agree with you @Countess, I think he set up that meeting so he could be the 'nice guy' again in his own head.

I think there was a lot going on for him in this episode.

He had been embarrassed by the false labour, he took offence at her questioning his power when she asked to be sent to Hannah's district, he was angry when she stood up to him and told him the baby wasn't his child, he had his moment of colluding with Serena about the rape (which seems to be a dynamic of their relationship, this plotting to cause harm while justifying it to each other), he enjoyed the rape, but then he had to find a way back to being the good guy, and also showed June his power once more.

Yes I hurt you, but it was your fault, and even if it wasn't your fault it was for your own good, and by the way, you questioned my power so here's the thing you wanted all along just to prove you were wrong but I'm a nice guy.

Kitsandkids · 23/07/2018 10:21

Is Hannah in pink because she's being raised to be a Handmaid? If so, I can't see June being able to just leave her to live her new life because she will know what kind of life is waiting for 'Agnes.'

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