The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 (UK Pace) - thread 3

[CruCru]

Hi all

Here is the next thread for those who are watching The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 on Channel 4. Please don't put any spoilers on this - the other thread (for those in other countries who are watching ahead of the UK) is:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3239228-Handmaids-Tale-Season-2-SPOILERS-VIEWING-AHEAD-OF-UK-SREENING

Didn't she say something like "is that all you offer me"? I forget so many details

Is that all you offer me - treason & coconuts?

WhiteFreesias - "If babies are so important why aren't they infertility treatments instead of raping handmaid's? I suppose it's all about the subjection of women but it still doesn't make sense."

Not all reactions make sense. We've been similar time and time again. Instead of doing the logical thing - fertility investigations and treatments, or even encouraging everyone to just sleep with everyone else - the American far-right embraced a divine cause for infertility. It does make sense, really. Gilead are doing something to try and halt the decline in fertility, just not a remotely logical or sensible thing. But they won't be the first or the last society to turn to extreme religion in times of crisis.

As much as this story is and should be about the women, I am really appreciating the emphasis on Nick and season 2 is making me think more about the men in this world than the book did. His backstory was unsurprising but rang true - the angry young man lashing out at the world who is told the Sons of Jacob can cure the ills, who is given a chance at respect and responsibility. And then once in the organisation, watching it spiral out of control into something he would never have supported.

Offred was right to be angry at him for daring to complain that he, to, had to sleep with someone he didn't want to. But equally the situation is horrific for him, as it is for Eden.

I have an impending sense of doom for Nick as the season continues. Without Offred and the baby I suspect he might have defected in Canada, but now he knows he cannot. He won't leave Offred and the baby, and possibly won't leave Eden either, knowing she would be punished too if he left, and as much as he doesn't want her as a wife she too is innocent in all this (at the moment).

I think he knows that the only way now to help Offred and the baby is to essentially sacrifice himself somehow, and he is just waiting for that to happen. There's a ticking clock over him.

@Thurlow - "Instead of doing the logical thing - fertility investigations and treatments, or even encouraging everyone to just sleep with everyone else - the American far-right embraced a divine cause for infertility."

I agree. June and Luke were a proven fertile couple.

But they split them up because Luke was a divorced man. They took their child, gave her away, and made June a Handmaid to be raped by men most likely infertile.

They would have had a better chance for seeing another child conceived if they had left June and Luke together. But that doesn't suit the ideology.

At the time Atwood wrote the book - Early 80s - IVF was very new - the first IVF baby born was 1978. Back then there was a lot of talk about if it was immoral and some religions still do object to it so could see Gilead doing the same. The Bible has the Rachel and Leah story who were sisters married to Jacob and their handmaid Bilhah which they are using as justification for the handmaids. Hence the Rachel and Leah centre where the bomb went off.
The technology and science has moved on also lot since Atwood wrote the book and it's now publicly available and talked about.
Another thing is the cost. Again in the book they are struggling for food and basic rations. Although in the TV series the shops seem full of produce. I read the book some time back so my memory is sketchy but I think there were oranges and they all rushed to get one. Like my parents memories of post war Britain. So cost could be an issue for treatments.

On a separate note I wish there was a map. From what I can work out they are currently in Boston. The US government is in Alaska and they also have Hawaii. Canada and Mexico seem business as usual. So where are the colonies and the nuclear waste?

If (when) something horrible happens to Nick I'll be gutted, he's an endearing character. Can't see him making the end of the series tbh

I read the book some time back so my memory is sketchy but I think there were oranges and they all rushed to get one.

Yes, I remember that. And I think that was one of the angles they used when the Mexican ambassador visited - fertile land as well as fertile women.

I think the Colonies will be somewhere in the midwest. Fred told June that he was going to Washington (I assume DC) at some point in the first series so the Colonies won't be as close as Virginia.

The footage of the Colonies makes me think of Kansas. But then, that is just because the barn they sleep in reminds me of Superman (the one with Christopher Reeves). It's possible that there are quite a few places in the US that look like that.

I would actually be quite irritated if all the main characters survive. It isn't realistic that all these people plotting against the regime would not get found out.

A map would be great.

Is the war still going on in some parts of Americ. There are quite a few references to it.

I think Emily mentioned the war in Florida in S1E1. However, I wonder whether it is a made up war (a bit like in 1984) so the regime has some propaganda to broadcast. The people living in Gilead won't know for sure whether any of the news is true.

Haven't rtft but will later. I just don't understand the letters. Surely it will make the women mentioned traiters and they will be severely punished. The people who have escaped could have easily told the government their stories instead.

Kiss - map briefly appears on Waterford’s desk in a later episode. I didn’t even notice but eagle eyed watchers have posted the map on Reddit

the-handmaids-tale.wikia.com/wiki/Republic_of_Gilead

there's a description of the map on here

It wasn't just that Luke was divorced. He and June committed ACTUAL adultery not just "in the eyes of God" adultery

The comments in that wikia link may have spoilers - beware!

m.imgur.com/a/JHLDtzh

These are the best & most comprehensive maps of Gilead I’ve found.

But is the page UK spoiler-safe, Witch?

I wouldn't consider Witch's link to be completely UK spoiler safe. The first 5 or 6 pics are, but I scrolled further and saw things that I would consider to be minor spoilers. My fault for scrolling, but I would advise against clicking if you want to stay completely spoiler-free.

I have nothing else to add to the thread - I'm just so desperate to know how this series is going to end (but not desperate enough to seek the major spoilers!)

I almost didn't like the level of hope there was last episode - that's a sure sign it's going to be cruelly dashed in the next few!

Oh, I’m so sorry, I hadn’t scrolled further than the maps! Yy, if you want to stay completely spoiler free, don’t go past the first 6 pictures!

I'm at the point now where I watch the current episode as it airs, read this thread, then watch it again to notice all the things others notice.

At the first watching it didn't click with me about Serena's pictorial itinerary. Now I get it, the Canadian's know the wives aren't allowed to read because of the refugees have made it over the border. Doh!

Also rewatching when Serena walked through the hotel lobby alone there was so many security men that I can't believe she didn't have her own security. Surely with all the protests planned and all the security personnel in the hotel she would have been 'under someone's eye'.

Not got to the part about her throwing the matches in the fire once home, but I'm pretty sure it was just the matches not the cigarettes. Maybe Mark's number in in the cigarette packet?

For Elisabeth Moss fans

The Hollywood Reporter does these Actors Roundtable series on YouTube

Elisabeth is on a Roundtable with :

Thandie Newton
Maggie Gyllenhaal
Claire Foy
Sandra Oh

And

Angela Bassett

No spoilers as yet will update officially later

Loved seeing her admiration for Sandra Oh

Sandra Oh is Canadian I'd LOVE it if they made her Canada's PM on THT

I have never wanted a programme to finish but not finish at the same time.

Serena definitely only threw the matches in the fire, but she had a moments hesitation.

I think it has only just occurred to her that she's living in a domestically abusive situation. Previously she didn't see the abuse as hersituation was about control, but now it's become physical and caused her physical pain she recognises that as abusive. Not something she's been on the receiving end of before.

Looking back to when Atwood wrote the original novel psychological / emotional abuse and control / manipulation was not recognised as a form of abuse. Waterford's conversation on the stairs prior to Serena going into her room and throwing the matches in the fire was very directive to Serena of how she should feel.

I think June's conversation with Rita was playing the long game in case her baby ended up with the Waterfords long term. Rita is defeated by / resigned to her situation and has no plans to escape. If the baby ends up living with the Waterfords she wants someone to look out for him/ her (not sure if the sex has been revealed but in June's convo with AL she referred to the baby as her/she consistently).

Moving onto June's convo with AL I think it's June's medium term goal to have AL doubt the safety of the baby and be more involved in his/ her first few months of life.

Short term goal is going to be get out pre-birth now that Serena has told her she has to leave as soon as the baby is born.

Does anyone find it odd that Elizabeth Moss is a Scientologist and so belongs to a cult that shares similarities with Gilead?