The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 (UK Pace) - thread 3

[CruCru]

Hi all

Here is the next thread for those who are watching The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 on Channel 4. Please don't put any spoilers on this - the other thread (for those in other countries who are watching ahead of the UK) is:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3239228-Handmaids-Tale-Season-2-SPOILERS-VIEWING-AHEAD-OF-UK-SREENING

The doctor didn’t say nothing could be done for the baby. She said the best thing was to take the tubes out and to keep her warm and secure. And she was right. At no point did she say that the baby was ill and beyond hope.

The doctor didn't say the baby was beyond help, did she? She said she couldn't find anything wrong with her.

The doctor said all tests had been done and there wasn't anything wrong, so they should keep Angela safe and warm and pray.

@morningtoncrescent62 wasn't that scene with econowife just to imply that it was her who may have reported June heading that way, leading to her being found?

Ah bollocks

I just accidently read a load of spoilers. Not impressed

I have too Soub

Clicked on something by accident

That's a shame for you both. I follow Margaret Atwood on facebook and have had to hide her posts to be on the safe side recently. Elisabeth Moss has also been putting things in Instagram that I've been avoiding. I'm also avoiding all news articles about THT just in case. It's hard work!

Regarding the baby's recovery, it reminded me of a true story i read of a little newborn twin boy in Australia who was declared dead after doctors trying to revive him for 20 mins. His mum was cradling in her arms saying goodbye and miraculously he revived. That was a much younger baby but a similarly dramatic turnaround from a mother's skin to skin contact with her child. Jamie Ogg i think he was called.

I sort of agree that it stretches credibility that Janine was allowed contact though.

Loved the Janine scene at the end.

I thought that Mrs Putman had harmed Angela/Charlotte in some way - as soon as they said Angela was ill I presumed she had poisoned her or similar. And the Martha/doctor was going to find that out. I'm still thinking that's possible but can't think what she could have done that wouldn't show on toxicology etc.

I really fear for Janine and Angela, I wish next episode finds them magically across the border but that's just not going to happen is it 😔 Some amazing acting as always in this episode, the subtleties in facial expressions.

And Fred is a prick. A weak prick at that.

Can someone explain what June and serena were up to with all the paperwork? I know Serena ordered the doctor to come and got the other commander guy arrested last week but why did June say when they were in the market that she had helped ‘cover’ for Fred? And Had they been tweaking all his documents in a way he didn’t like?

June and Serena were pretending to be Fred and making decisions posing as him.

They set up Commander Creepy to get him removed because he was the one ordering the executions of people, including the Martha who was shot in the street.

He was clearly going after the Waterford's so Serena wanted him out while Fred was too sick to do anything.

Then once that worked and Fred was in charge, they kept going to make improvements.

So they were covering for Fred in that everyone else was meant to believe the orders were coming from him, so he could appear stronger and more powerful than he really was at the time. He might have known some of it but not all, not until he got back and saw the work for himself. It stopped another Commander taking control and protected Fred's position.

But they made decisions he might not have made and 'got above themselves' as women.

June thought about that when Emily made her comment because Emily wouldn't see that they were trying to help everybody. She would just have seen June working with the Waterford's to protect Fred, not that they were also protecting themselves and hopefully others, like the Marthas.

Surprised ( or not , maybe ) that so many people think Mrs Putnam would poison the baby. Not all women who have had motherhood forced upon them are going to try and kill them . I think this is an 'evil mother' stereotype - step mums, mothers with pnd who don't bond , etc

Seasure I think it was more the whole scenario that unfolded around Angela/Charlotte - Janine claiming Warren Putnam had said he loved her, she ran away with the baby etc

After all that Naomi had to deal with an unfaithful husband - I know they all are by our understanding, but specifically sex outside of the ceremony - and unfaithful emotionally as well as physically. He created that child with Janine in love, the thing he couldn't or didn't do with her.

The censure that followed where he lost his hand and they could easily have lost their position or been executed. And after all that she has to stay with the fucker and accept his lovechild, not their Handmaid-child.

I'm not keen on Naomi at all, I think she's an unpleasant woman, but I also think her antipathy is understandable and I would imagine she's been terrified. Of losing her husband, her life and 'her' child. Maybe she hasn't allowed herself to love Angela because it's all so tenuous and balanced, no one is safe.

And FWIW, I think she does care something for Angela, she allowed Janine in ostensibly as a favour for Janine, but I think also as a last attempt at something for Angela. If she was all butch she would t have done that.

And there's that more than two dimensional character building again! She not just a cipher for a bitter bitch, she's as deep and complex as any of them...

Yes, I've never really bought the Angela poisoning story, doesn't ring true. Can't see her being neglected either, she would probably have been handed over to one of the Marthas for care, if Naomi wasn't interested in her.

"He created that child with Janine in love, the thing he couldn't or didn't do with her."

I don't think he did love Janine though. I think he was just telling her what she wanted to hear so he could get blow jobs and more exciting sex outside the ceremony.

Fred and the men who use Jezebel's don't love the women there. Maybe Warren Putnam doesn't have the balls to go to Jezebel's, but he took his chance to have that kind of sex at home with Janine.

He's not the first man to lie about being in love to get sex from a vulnerable woman. Then he had to keep Janine on side by promising to run away with her and be a family while they kept her on as a wet nurse. He was probably still getting the sex and blow jobs at that point, and thinking at the end they would just move her on and nobody would be any the wiser. There was no love for Janine in that.

Oh sure, I don't think he actually loved Janine for a moment but the very idea of him not being within the ceremony or getting off at Jezebel's would nag at her. Whether he loved Janine or not, he created a relationship with her in which he made her believe he did.

The emotional infidelity, even though it was all a lie, in fact, especially as it was all a lie, must hurt.

Love the analytical posts. I probably wouldn't like the series half as much if it was just me watching it, without all the extra thoughts, speculation and insights on here!

I agree......these posts really help to give the series further perspective and depth.

I'm actually thinking of joining a book club as a result of reading all the different opinions

Why would a made up emotional infidelity be more painful than a genuine emotional affair ?
He just found another way to use Janine.
The baby wasn't born out of love and I don't quite understand the explanation that , well it was a made up love which is even worse .

But it's Naomi's perspective that it may have been love. She and her husband presumably don't show love to one another so she may believe that he loved Janine, and therefore Angela's conception came out of love.

And as a pp said, Janine is vulnerable so may also well understand what was happening between them to be love.

Ah ok got it
Janine definitely believed he loved her . She says it a few times in series 1.

Exactly! AND, he's jeopardised her life for a complete lie, just for a fuck and a blow job with a younger woman.

Despite that Janine was used and powerless, Naomi is full of censure for her.

In fact, all the wives blame the handmaids when their husbands go after them - and yet the handmaids have no power at all and have to submit to stay alive. Raped every month, with the stricture to conceive or be moved on and eventually shipped off to the colonies, which is a death sentence.

A couple of questions to remind me:

Why did Mr Putnam have his hand chopped off?

Why did Fred give June a picture of her child (forgot her name)?

Who did the actual removal of Janine 's eye? Was it Aunt Lydia?