Lassies of Lallybroch in the Caribbean - The Outlander Discussion Thread - Spoilers Ahoy

[MoNigheanDonn]

New thread lassies for all things Jamie and Claire (and all things in between).

Only two episodes left! Hope everyone enjoyed episode 11.

Clare comments herself that in some ways it is fortunate the Jamie was an absent father due to his old fashioned views on how women should behave. Women in the 18th century were either the property of their father or husband there were none of the freedoms Bree would have had growing up in the 50s/60s

Ah, I see. Thanks gamer.

I still think it would've been more interesting to see Bree being brought up by Jamie though. Just watching him and Marsali knocking heads has been one of the highlights of this season. It's also one of the cruellest things DG did to Jamie, I think. I don't know why you'd punish your characters to the extent which she's done.

Courtney DG claims to really be BJR, hopefully that is meant as humour, so gets quite a bit of sadistic pleasure from their misfortunes?

Wow quirky, that's a really bizarre thing for her to say. But on the other hand, would explain a lot.

In that case, I wonder if Jamie is an old High School boyfriend and Claire is the girl who he dumped DG for 🤔

I like your thinking, Courtney. There was a bookclub Q & A at the end of one of the books on Kindle where she said that . She also inferred that Jamie was a bit like her husband, tall, red haired and with clever sense of humour (though he doesn't look red haired in pictures now). Maybe just a fantasy version: forever young regardless of age, fierce, brave and always up for a good shag .

Yes, the lowlands were fairly anglicised by that point, we are all Sassenachs too and also pretty much completely protestant,. There wasn't the same level of conflict with the English either and hadn't been for a long time. Unlike in the Highlands, which were still mainly Catholic, holding on to the Clan system and much less "civilised", if you like. In saying that, I am from the west coast of the central belt and my forefathers were Jacobite. It's a complex thing, really, and the culmination of all sorts of discontent, political, religious, cultural, social and more. It's a fascinating time in Scottish and British history. Sadly Charles Stuart was a bit of a wassock, anyway.

DG has form for saying really odd things. She has said that she is Black Jack, that allowing fan fiction is like selling your children into white slavery and many other truly bizarre and creepy things. I think she is a very odd woman. I also remember that when Sam was cast, she called the TV folk up and told them that he was grotesque or something similar.

Perhaps if Brianna had been brought up by Jamie she wouldn't be such an almighty pain in the behind.

Though, I do think that DG being a bit of a loose cannon means that the books are bonkers interesting. Ron Moore has said that he likes the fact that you're never sure what's going to happen next in the plot I bet that makes her interesting to work with.

Yy, Brianna was very obviously spoilt by Frank in the books. Also, she wouldn't have been brought up in that weird repressed, passive-aggressive household which can't have been great for emotional development. I know Brianna makes a comment later about seeing one marriage of duty, Claire with Frank, and one of love, Claire with Jamie.

Less I love that word "wassock" !

I still think it would've been more interesting to see Bree being brought up by Jamie though.

Based on Jamie's oft-stated belief in corporal punishment and DG's oft-depiction of same, that would have likely involved several beatings. Glad to have been spared reading or seeing that.

I hate the bit where Roger belts wee Jem. It seems really really out of character.

18th century views on punishment are a far cry from modern sensibilities! As an aside, I'm currently reading The Fatal Shore, a history of transportation to Australia. The treatment of Jamie by BJR is rooted I historical fact .

Just watched S1 Ep2 Castle Leoch, there is more time to build up the relationships between characters, rather than jumping from incident to incident. Beautiful costumes, sets and scenery.

Slightly OT, but has anyone ever visited any of the filming locations in Outlander? Found out recently that the castle they use for Lallybroch is on the outskirts of Edinburgh but it's a private estate and I wondered how accessible it is?

Odd question, I realise. Not planning on stalking any of the cast, but I wouldn't mind a pic next time I'm there.

Lots of the Heughligans come and visit them. There are always pictures of them at midhope castle etc. So the sites must be reasonably accessible. The latest thing is pictures of them at the print shop.

Re the skelping of wee Jem, Roger was born round about the same time as my parents and corporal punishment was standard practice in those days, so he wouldn't think Ower much of smacking Jem, I don't think. I was born in the 60s and we were all skilled, too. We were belted at school as well, for wee things like being late. It's only recently that culture changed.

There are always pictures of them at midhope castle

Interesting, thanks! Had a quick look for the printshop when I was there last time, but couldn't find it. They're doing Outlander tours now but didn't fancy that for some reason.

I was born in the 60s and we were all skilled, too

Me and my friend were talking about that the other. She and my DH are around four years older than me and they can both remember getting the slipper at school. By the time, I got to senior school, it had totally changed and corporal punishment was a no-no.

However, just because you were brought up like that doesn't always mean that you pass it on to your kids. My Grandparents were given the belt as kids, but never touched my dad (who was, by all accounts a bit of a sod and born in the 1940's when this kind of punishment was still a 'thing'). My mum remembers getting it from her dad though, and never really forgave him for it.

There was definitely corporal punishment in my secondary school in the 80s. I think we must have been one of the last schools to still have it. There was a massive fuss after I left, as a former pupil went to the press about being hit with rulers strapped together, the head had quite sadistic tendencies. Floggings and irons would have been common penal punishments too, it was all about punishment and not reform.

To give DG her due, some of the "dodgy" elements of her stories were common elements of 18th century life and would have been viewed quite differently: forced marriage, domestic violence, consent or lack of etc. However, there are ways of treating these issues sensitively, as evidenced by the tv show, which has ironed out quite a few of these issues nicely.

Re-reading that, In the 18th century flogging and irons would have been common... (our head was not that sadistic )

To give DG her due, some of the "dodgy" elements of her stories were common elements of 18th century life and would have been viewed quite differently: forced marriage, domestic violence, consent or lack of etc.

True. But there are moral implications in choosing to go there and certainly in choosing to take a child there. I think it's an element that could have been more fully realized in the books.

What if Claire in Boston had found that Jamie had already moved to the New World and was in North Carolina? Would her choice to go there to him, to a society where slavery was a mainstay of the economy all for some hot guy the love of her life be morally neutral?

I'm 60% through book one and having a break. I go between enjoying it and just seeing the episodes in my head. I'll finish it eventually! Watched a couple episodes the other day, season 1 is definitely the best

Seneca that would certainly be a different slant, going to the New World straight away. I'm not sure how sensitively DG would have handled it. Claire in the books, certainly finds the slavery hard to deal with.

MoNigheanDonn I raced through the books, but only because I was desperate to find out what happened next. I started watching weekly on More4 and didn't want to wait, I would think it's a bit different when you already know the plot and have seen a better version on screen.

I was trawling through my spends yesterday, and realised I subscribed to audible books ages ago. Six credits, so I have downloaded the last 3 books. Davina-whats-her-name can read them to me.

I find her voice sneery especially with Roger and LJG, but I want to finish the books, but skip pages galore every time I try. Will listen while I work in the new year.

I'm not sure if Bree would have got beaten and raped any sooner if she had gone back with Claire earlier, Claire was pretty fierce about that (yet gets beaten and raped). But it would have been nice for fictional Jamie to actually raise one of his kids.

Does DG have kids? She must have, to have been so hot and descriptive on bf.

I think she has 3 kids.

One of her children is a writer. He uses the pen name Sam Sykes.

Lassies, I'm going away tomorrow for a few days and won't get a chance to be on the computer much. I wanted to wish you all a very happy Christmas and thank you for a year filled with lovely banter and shared Jamie-love!

ps im following Steven Cree on Twitter and he's hilarious! He and Sam have a lot of running jokes going and there's definitely a bromance (or something more....???) between them!