Liar Monday 9pm

[troodiedoo]

I'm sure there are many planning to watch this tonight but I can't see a thread, apologies if there is one.

Looks promising with good acting stock. I'm already worried about the implications for real life reporting and conviction rates if the female is lying. Got a feeling it won't be that black and white though.

I know what Hillingdon has said here and that is what I have based my report and comments on.

I stand by saying that 'opinion' is disgusting and I wasn't the only pp to object.

MN rules??? What if your son god forbid was accused of rape.

Maybe he had too much to drink and so did the girl. Something happened. Would honestly without question rush to the side of the girl concerned? You wouldn't believe your son?

What 'decision making' exactly?

He preyed on her, manipulated the situation. I think a lot of women have had a few to drink on a date, and most would probably let him come in and wait for the taxi/find a charger given that she knew him and had some trust in him.

You could be so drunk you could hardly talk and that still doesn't give someone the right to do that to you, and it is 100% their fault, not yours.

If a son of mine had no concept of consent and that being intoxicated = unable to give consent I would be utterly ashamed and think I had failed as a parent.

My brother and other male friends would never think like this I wouldn't have anything to do with them if they did.

Mn rules forbid victim blaming

TBH I thought it might explore more around the idea of consent/presumed consent. It's turned out to be lazy and a bit shit really.

If nothing else this thread's been quite an eye opener... posts on here that state that JF's character was mentally unstable, irritating and annoying and because of that they thought she was the liar, and were "rooting for him" to be innocent.

Quite disturbing to think these people could make up a jury someday.

So Hillingdon, what precisely should Laura have done differently here then? Not invited him in? Maybe, but remember that this is someone she already knows, through her sister and through work. I would probably have made a similar decision, whether or not I had been drinking.

Or was her 'crime' to then have a drink with him inside the flat? Again, remember that she was DRUGGED and he could have slipped something into a soft drink or glass of water if he wanted to. She would hardly have been shitfaced with no recollection if she had just had a few glasses of wine.

Or maybe she should not have allowed him to pour the drinks or left him alone in the kitchen... But that's a decision millions of people make when they allow their partners/friends/family to make them a drink. I guess we just presume that they won't, y'know, drug us.

I agree there is a difference between actual victim-blaming (ie saying this is your fault, not the rapist's) and warning against getting into vulnerable situations for their own safety (such as e.g. walking through a dark park at night). However, I can't even see how Laura could have done anything differently here, to protect herself. It would be interesting to hear what precisely you are finding fault with, Hillingdon

So hillingdon, when you were younger did you never get so drunk you didn't really know what you were doing? Did you ever go back to someone house after a date, but then changed your mind about having sex with them? Did you ever walk home in a short skirt late at night because you couldn't get a cab, or you had lost your friends? I did. Luckily, I never met a rapist so I wasn't raped.

You only have one thing to teach your sons in this regard. Don't have sex with a woman who is too drunk to give consent. Simple really. And if they see a lone women on her own, drunk in a ditch, for fucks sake help her.

What Laura did or didn't do is surely irrelevant, he is apredator, he came out armed and with intent to rape, if he put something in her drink (and I agree that's not totally clear yet) then he wasn;t remotely concerned with waiting to see if consent would be given, he had already planned that he was having sex with her regardless of her wishes before he even got to the date.
All his actions were planned and thought out, he'd have continued with them whether she;d drunk lemonade all night and had a coffee when she got into her home.
Rapists and sex offenders are extremely manipulative people, who will do whatever it takes to get what they want.

Absolutely Kurri, she was raped because she met a rapist.

Did you not see the episode last night?

The detective went to the accused's house and gave him a leaflet on consent. She obviously does believe Laura.

And yes to the disgusting attitudes on this thread! He's good looking and a catch, he couldn't possibly rape anyone!

Oh and I just knew Hillingdon would post this nugget:

What if your son god forbid was accused of rape.

My question was to ChickRock

TBH I thought it might explore more around the idea of consent/presumed consent. It's turned out to be lazy and a bit shit really.

The detective gave the accused a leaflet on consent in last night's episode.

I really shocked myself by being drawn in by him and then definitely got a shiver down my spine when last night’s twist was revealed. I feel really sorry for the sister’s husband; poor guy.
On a separate note, wasn’t there a scene in last week’s episode where the female detective mentioned sort of in passing that she’s pregnant and didn’t want anyone finding out. It’s not been mentioned again, and seems odd to have brought it in if not a plot device so I wonder what that’s all about...

(2 minutes)

"Cup of Tea Consent" animation can never be shared too widely by us all, IMO.

Bus, I think that was rellik?

Oh hang on, no it wasn’t. Ignore me!!

The policewoman is pregnant - she went off to the ladies to be ill and the man she works with cottoned on.

Yes the detective is pregnant. And?

Perhaps her hormonal state of chaos has blighted her mind? Women in work get pregnant and are still able to work things out. Every. Single. Day.

Of course women at work get pregnant all the time...I’m certainly not suggesting it affects how she would do her job! I only mentioned it because this isn’t exactly subtle drama and I am pretty sure everything in it is put in as a plot device.... I could be wrong obviously! I just feel like I’m watching it and every piece of dialogue is a massive signpost towards something else that’s going to happen.

Elendon - you seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder and are looking into slights that are really not there. All Busmum is stating is a fact.

Yes, there are signposts, didn't understand the bit with the son and his pregnant girlfriend but maybe that was in order to allow the Dr to lie regarding what was wrong with her to her father

One thing I definitely don't think would happen is that a teacher would be allowed to teach the son of her alleged attacker.

Hillingdon. You are the one who is being objectionable. I'm not the only one to think so. Please think carefully in future before you post.

A huge chip on my shoulder regarding what exactly? Rape?

Rape is never subtle though.

Clearly mnhq agree with myself elendon and others as the offensive post has been deleted.

Rape regardless of the impetus for the discussion NEEDS to be recognised as only the responsibility of one party - the rapist.

You sound as though you own and run Mumnet so thank you for your unwanted advice. I will post what I like - it would be a boring world if we all thought the way you do.

Yeah I’m sure the bit with the son was to let us see the ease with which he lied. I actually wondered whether the detective’s pregnancy was going to be used by some other character later in the show to suggest - wrongly, obviously - that it might affect how she did her job because we already know there are some wronguns working elsewhere in the police station.

It might be a boring world but it would be a damn site safer!