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Telly addicts

The day the landlords moved in

383 replies

Ineedagoodusername · 28/06/2017 21:22

Is anyone watching this? The second landlord with his disgustingly extravagant lifestyle is making me so angry. The communal areas in his flats are horrific.

OP posts:
Blackgrouse · 29/06/2017 14:12

Decent, seeing as the property you link to is a HMO some of the things you mention having had done are a requirement not optional. As the rent includes bills it makes financial sense for you to insulate the property well to maximise your profit.

I also manage my rental myself and if the tenant rings me about something I have it sorted out that day wherever possible.

I would like to think my tenants would say I'm a good landlord but I wouldn't say any tenant I've had has looked after the property as well as I would, but no major issues.

At the end of the day renting out a property has to be profitable. If the government make changes which impact greatly on profit margins or give the tenants too many rights no one will want to be a landlord and there will be greater housing problems.

The80sweregreat · 29/06/2017 14:14

Is there any kind of regulations for landlords/ ladies, or the tenants? i was a LL back in 2001 for 4 years, but we had a management company dealing with it all and they were great. the minute there was any kind of problem, they were in sorting it out and we hired a gardener. they kept us up to date with things and we went to see the people living there ourselves and met them and kept in touch. i like to think that we were good to them and treated them fairly - we even let them leave a bit earlier than they should have done so they wouldnt miss out on a place when we sold up. I dont know if things are different now - maybe its easier with one place only a few tenants, but a number of properties and numerous people might be harder to cope with. I did feel bad letting the house - it was for work purposes and the rent wasnt huge, but you cant help feeling bad when its time to sell and they have to move on , although i guess your aware of this when you rent. it seems more cut throat with the professional landlords. we were a bit of a softer touch i think! i hope those people are now home owners or have secure rents, was a long time ago so guessing they might have had a change in fortune since then, they were only young. I couldnt be nasty to anyone - not like the man shown on this programme, he didnt seem to have any empathy at all. luckily the son did!!

decenthumanbeing · 29/06/2017 15:02

Hi Blackgrouse,

My apology for any misunderstanding caused; the works we did were in 2013 and we have only just "considered" offering this as a room share. We can demonstrate this by way of redacted names on copies of past tenancy agreements.

We decided to not rent it as a room share or variant thereof, eg a HMO and so the standards that we applied are as true as they were in 2013.

I can fully understand how you may have come to the conclusion that the works we did were mandatory as the link I provided did indeed advertise a house share, for that I do apologies and I will happily share the report with anyone that we had commissioned back in 2012/2013 by the fire officer which pre-dates our recent advertisement of a house share which will clarify that what we did was completely voluntary on our part.

We also have quotations from Fire Sprinkler companies for domestic properties; again completely voluntary action on our part which we are considering for all future properties. Again happy to share with anyone.

The reason why we have only recently considered sharing a house was due to some medical students in the area looking for this kind of property, but despite many viewing requests we decided not to operate a HMO due to the problems it could have caused. Again we ultimately chose to accept less £ for the property for the sake of peoples wellbeing.

The reason why we can afford to operate in this way is because we have an IT / Telecoms business and over the past 23 years decided to put any spare money into something other than IT/Telecoms.

We don't have any borrowings, so we are not restricted like many people who are facing the challenges of the recent Tax legislation.

I also draw a distinct difference to people who have one or two properties either by inheritance, meeting someone and having a spare home to those who purposefully go out of their way to source and procure property to rent.

People who actively pursue property for rental should take the highest standards possible as its in effect a business decision and in all business decisions, they need to be financially sound and factor into the calculations overheads.

decenthumanbeing · 29/06/2017 15:20

Hi Kickhiminthenuts

I know what you mean about trying to call somewhere a home.

We developed a property and during the development we were approached by a young single person. We inspected her existing house and it was immaculate. The poor girl had tried to make the place better but couldn't as the walls were so wet, the paint would not dry.

Absolutely disgraceful.

Here's what we did.

We gave her the choice of colours for décor and carpet throughout and we put extra people on to the place to get it completed soon as possible to get her out of that disgraceful house and we took a hit on the rent so that she could leave the previous place whilst she made good any outstanding payments for leaving at short notice.

We start of with a 6m AST and we renew the agreement afterwards if all has gone well. We also offer half rent periods in Dec if people keep up the payments on time.

After 6 months we offer 12 months AST, again renewable if there are no serious problems arising and we allow décor of their choice.

We also consider family pets with a caveat of damage must be reported as soon as possible so that we can make good any defects and if serious damage occurs that a fair contribution is made towards making good.

We also check to ensure rent is affordable for people so that people are not struggling to make ends meet.

decenthumanbeing · 29/06/2017 15:34

Hi Blackgrouse,

I overlooked one other comment you made in respect to insulation and the motive you suggested for doing so.

All of our properties are fully insulated regardless of type of tenancy, meaning we do it because its the right thing to do.

To clarify, we have no tenancies that have included bills and never had. We contemplated an inclusive option to avoid conflict on who pays the bills if we rented per room as per the recent advertisement but we decided against the whole HMO idea.

If we did go down the route of a shared property, then we would be more persuaded towards individual apartments than shared resources.

As for the ECO measures. we put our hands deep into our pockets so to speak and paid for all of the Eco measures ourselves. Some people took advantage of the GreenDeal option where utility bills would increase to recoup the cost of the GreenDeal. We found that to be absurd in that tenants would in effect subsidise someone else's property.

Dillite2 · 29/06/2017 15:37

Decent you sound like amazing landlords and I would absolutely love to rent from you. The internal fire doors alone make your house a fantastic place, especially when I think of my cardboard doors that don't even close properly. Out of curiosity, can I ask how much you let your properties out for as single units and not HMO?

BMW6 · 29/06/2017 15:42

decent human being
Why "no DSS"?

decenthumanbeing · 29/06/2017 16:12

Hi Dillite2

We rent a two bedroom at £85 per week and a three bedroom at just under £100 per week.

Firedoors and casings don't cost that much more than standard 6 panel cardboard ones, perhaps another £30 per door - that's all. There are different ratings of firedoors, the ones we fit are FD30 meaning they are able to withstand 30 mins.

They are 6 panel like the most people would recognise.

Here is a typical list of things we do.

Fit Internal Firedoors with door closers and intumecent smoke strip to block smoke.
External doors fitted with Thumb turn locks so that you can escape without having to find keys.
Fire extinguishers top and bottom of the stairs.
Emergency lighting top and bottom of the stairs.
Interlinked Heat and Smoke detectors in each bedroom, kitchen, top and bottom of the stairs.

Fireblanket in the kitchen placed strategically so that you do not have to traverse any possible source of fire to access it, another words you move away from a heat source towards safety to access it.

We also create a protected space so that you can group together as a family. On one property we had a cellar that was accessible from the kitchen. We thought - hang on a min, if there was ever a fire in a kitchen then you could be trapped in the basement, so we built a protected corridor to the cellar at the expense of a slightly smaller kitchen. When we point out all of the things we have done and why to prospective tenants then its a no brainer.

We have a fire alarm test switch fitted so that detectors can be tested by tenants easily. All of the detectors are mains powered and have 10 year batteries fitted.

Things we are planning for the next properties are as follows.
Fire Sprinklers and performing actual smoke tests using dry ice fog machines to see how we could manage escape in a blacked out property so that we can see how we can improve on lighting to escape.

We also have a video somewhere from a few years ago where we were testing materials for fire proofing and we set light to them outside and we were shocked at some of the toxic gases emitted, so we didn't use them. I will see if I can find the old iPhone and post this online sometime to share the experience.

We have also part built some apartments and have taken extra safety measures.

There needs to be a firewall between apartments, so we decided not only to build a firewall between each apartment but go the extra mile and build a further two firewalls (one on each side of the apartment) so that any damage to the integrity of the neighbouring wall (eg someone putting a TV on the wall, a shelf etc) which could damage the firewall. So having a middle firewall makes it less likely to be damaged.

decenthumanbeing · 29/06/2017 16:27

Hi BMW6

To be clear on this point, we have no issue with people who are on benefits and up to the introduction of Universal Credit (UC) we had tenants on housing benefit.

As the UC system stands, we do not have the appetite in being placed on hold for hours at a time to speak to advisors in the Gov. to sort out payment problems because the Gov have decided to snoop on tenants via facebook, reviewing their life choices and then halt / suspending payments.

We have lobbied against the Universal Credit system when it came in but nothing changed.

Its the system not the people.

Its also worth picking up on someones comment in the forum where they made a reference to pressure on landlords making it less attractive thus leading to more housing problems.

The Gov need to provide good quality social housing stock and then they can deal directly with people who are on the UC system. Perhaps then and only then will a better solution be found for people.

JustDanceAddict · 29/06/2017 17:14

Yes I am implying it was done up well and now she can keep it nicely. I don't see what's wrong with that. Would you prefer her to run it into the ground so it costs them another 10K to resolve?

The80sweregreat · 29/06/2017 17:22

I think that Linda was too busy holding down 3 jobs to pay the rent and bills to have the time to contact dad and son -plus they said they had taken over the flat from another owner and had never been there before - maybe Linda just thought that they were aware of the damp and the extractor fan already and it was useless telling them anything as nothing would be done anyway? The granddaughter had it right though, once the cross rail is up and running and the area is done up ( ie, young professionals wanting to move in around there) they will just put the rent up in order for her to have to leave. thats how it seemed to me too , until the son had a change of heart after meeting her and realising everyone isnt as rich as he is etc etc. ( being on tv probably helped) its a shame that more landlords dont do this, actually meet their tenants a bit more. The dad wanted her out, that much was clear really. not young and professional enough.

Blackgrouse · 29/06/2017 18:32

Decent can I ask why you go to such extremes in fire protection, security, insulation etc in seemingly quite standard properties in what I assume is an average house price, if not below average area? The rents you quoted seem quite low, less than I charge but then I don't know your area.

I can only assume you don't need any profit at all from your lets as you are wealthy from other business?

I have smoke alarms installed and provided a fire extinguisher (I don't actually even have a fire extinguisher in my own home) but see no need for fire doors in any standard 2/4 bed home. No landlord I know of goes to the levels you seem to, it actually seems a bit strange.

Ineedagoodusername · 29/06/2017 18:59

Justdanceaddict what was it she had previously done that made you think she wouldn't keep it nice? The damp wasn't her fault.

OP posts:
walkinganhouraday · 29/06/2017 19:25

I agree that both the Dad LL and the 2nd LL were twats. Son LL did at least seem to grasp the effect they had on someone's whole life.

I rented for about 15 years. My first LL was awful and intimidating but my 2nd LL was fab and I stayed for 10 years. He even used to let me off a month's rent most Christmases!

I do feel though that small, cheap jobs - such as fixing the tap, replacing the sealant around the sink or replacing the shelf of the cupboard - although they are LL's responsibility could easily have been taken care of by Linda or one of her family. They are simple 10 minute jobs.

Other PPs have mentioned not wanting to do anything to house or garden yourself because you could be out with a month's notice but it's about improving your environment while you're there.

decenthumanbeing · 29/06/2017 20:13

Hi Blackgrouse,

I'm delighted to share, but I will begin by saying that the type of property doesn't come into the equation for us, the common denominator is that people matter.

I'm pleased to see that you provide some firefighting apparatus and I would encourage you to do the same at home, but to answer the questions you have raised, especially as to why when our efforts seem quite strange I will try my best.

Firstly the Fire aspect; I spent over eight years working in the fire industry and know how quickly and easily a fire can start, spread and kill - that is why I take the precautions I do.

Often it's simple things like means of escape, protected spaces, early fire detection, thumb turn lock to get out, emergency lighting. I mentioned FD30 fire doors. They cost around £30 more than regular doors, so not a big expense that could save a life.

We install detectors in vestibules, the main living area, top and bottom of stairways, each bedroom, Carbon Monoxide detectors anywhere where there is a gas appliance.

I have deliberately tried to not mention recent events in my posts as they are deeply upsetting, but you can see why life is so important, especially before profit.

Security: at the rear of our property we fit two LED PIR Floodlights. We install two at the rear in case one fails, which means we can always provide outdoor lighting while any defective unit is replaced.

We did the dual option in the days of tungsten filament type units which seem to go with no predictability. The LED ones are more reliable, but we install two as it makes good sense to do so.

At the front door, we have a courtesy lamp so that you can see who is at the door when its dark outside.

As for CCTV and a security alarm system, who wouldn't want the benefit of these items?

Insulation: The use of insulation has had a measured effect on the reduction of CO2 and in the consumption of fossil fuels. It also means that peoples outgoings are less in one of our properties than say a house that hasn't had these measures taken.

We insulate on the inside of the building as research has shown that blown insulation into the cavities can create void areas that ultimately lead to cold spots on walls. If rock wool is used, there is an additional acoustic benefit to be gained; especially useful for noisy neighbours.

I could continue at length on what we do and why, but I guess you also want to learn more on the financials; again I'm more than willing to share this with you and others.

We don't mind taking the financial hit the first time around; that is why we gut property back to brick and start with a blank canvas. Once you have a fixed approach to a job, then the final cost is more predictable.

We will recover the initial costs down the line. Its a little like the tortoise and hare story. We will surpass the hare at some point and continue to outperform as we don't have the headache of maintenance, tenant churn and so on.

How can we afford to do this?
A lot of landlords have borrowed money to purchase a property and so the time clock begins ticking as repayments are required to cover the loans.

Landlords can often ill afford the empty property tax, the lack of income streams never mind taking on a comprehensive refurbishment which can be eight weeks or more.

A loan/mortgage will require servicing, and this leaves a small amount of operating capital for the landlord. This is perhaps why we see so many landlords struggling to maintain their housing stock.

Introduce the latest tax rules effecting the interest that is repaid on a buy-to-let property then you have a ticking time bomb.

Here is how we approach it: We purchase outright the property so that we don't have any outgoings on repayments. We can then afford the luxury of time to do what is often necessary. We are not effected by the introduction of the latest tax rules effecting relief on interest repayments because we don't have any borrowings.

The rents can be affordable, or low as some may say because we are not handing over a large proportion of the income to a lender such as a bank.

I recognise that not everyone can afford to do this, but then it raises the question why they are in the market at all and if they can survive the latest changes in tax law.

As I have said previously, our approach means we cannot upscale our property portfolio, but what we do have is quality rather than quantity. We have lovely homes that people embrace as homes, and we have few void periods, and we know that should be something terrible occur that we did everything we could.

As for the ability to do what we do financially, we work extremely hard across all of our businesses and as I type this at 8 pm from my desk at work, its just another 12 hour day as usual. I added that in case anyone thought we had a privileged start in life - I wish!

My advice to all landlords is to try and walk the journey the tenant does, hence why I looked forward to the BBC documentary. Do whatever you can to make improvements, one step at a time.

For example, purchase a couple of emergency lights for around £15 each and have them installed at your tenant's property. Do a detector test for them to ensure all is well.

When it comes to the Gas Cert tests, we always accompany the Gas Safe engineer as a comfort to the tenant, so they know someone they trust is chaperoning someone who they don't know.

We also purchase LED lights and carry them around with us. When we visit tenants, we have a chat and if any bulbs happen to be blown we change them for them. Yes, its in the tenancy agreement for them to change but why not help when you can.

We find our notepad the best tool to carry. We ask if there is anything we can do and then we write it down and follow it up.

I always look for the opportunity to do a good deed or two helping people. The little things can make a difference and often they will cost little to do, such as giving a bit of your time.

We are helping a young couple move in tomorrow, and we are installing the TV on the wall for them so that its affixed securely, centralised to the wall. No charge - why not? They will appreciate what you do for them and this, in turn, is reflected in attitude towards you.

Good luck and I'll keep an eye out for your future posts.

decenthumanbeing · 29/06/2017 20:35

As a thought if anyone would like to see one of our properties in person and your in the northwest in the BB postcode area or prepared to travel we'd be delighted to spend the day showing you and exchange ideas.

Unfortunately we cant bring the house to you, so you would have to make your own way here :-)

Also, when we embark on our next home we can create a web blog and share with you all so that you can follow the progress and see what goes into the making of our rental homes.

Stopnamechanging · 30/06/2017 00:23

Nice advert.

KidneyBeanbag · 30/06/2017 01:15

Re the original post, I am glad I did not watch the program - I had half hoped they would all become more empathetic but it seems not.

DecentHumanBeing you say all the right things, but actually, it is just really wrong that you don't allow people on UC to rent from you.

The poorest and most vulnerable shoud not be victimised further for UC when they did not choose it. Just like they did not choose the illness or disability many people, like my husband and I, have.

You (and thousands like you) would deny me a home through no fault of my own (and with flawless credit etc) knowing full well there is nothing from the council to fall back on and somehow you can justify it because you don't want the hassle. Well, I can tell you that no one on UC wants the hassle either but we have no choice. We would also very much like not to be unwell.

The stress of being homeless and desperate for a house for several years thorugh no fault of our own (LLs selling up etc) has made our health even worse and my husband suicidal. The all consuming daily horror of having to constantly make phone calls to agents and LLs and sell yourself; to cajole, persuade to beg but yet to try not to cry or come across as too desperate, only to be constantly denied often 10 times a day, is completely and utterly soul destroying.

But go ahead and write a very long post about your fire doors and smoke dectectors and your lightbulbs, and ignore the fact that you are part of a system that actually destroys lives because that is what you are inflicting on people by your choices.

You do have the power to do good, but crucially, you also have the power to choose who deserves to benefit from that good, and the power to deny people a home to live in. That is an immense power to have over people's lives.

decenthumanbeing · 30/06/2017 08:30

Hi KidneyBeanBag

Thank you for your post even if does seems a little off topic.

The conversations posted are about the BBC documentary, The week the Landlords moved in, moreover the state of the accommodation, hence why I made a comment on the high standards we achieve to help people.

Let's make no mistake here, change to social housing is required and needs to come from Government who have the real power.

Have you spoken to your local MP about your circumstances?

Having had time to reflect on your post, I think your comments may be better suited for a wider audience which could make for an interesting debate on where the responsibility for people who find themselves in a similar situation as you have, should sit.

Stopnamechanging · 30/06/2017 08:37

decenthumanbeing everything, down to your username on here has been created to make posters think that you are some sort of philanthropist.

I have found your posts nothing more than a poorly described advert for your properties.

No landlord is in it for the good of other people.

I thought that your last reply to a very heartfelt post was most revealing.

decenthumanbeing · 30/06/2017 08:41

Hi, Stopnamechanging.

We have no property to let, and the posts were not meant to be a form of advertising, but thank you.

Stopnamechanging · 30/06/2017 08:44

Also, when we embark on our next home we can create a web blog and share with you all so that you can follow the progress and see what goes into the making of our rental homes

I must have misunderstood this, but no, Thank you

Stopnamechanging · 30/06/2017 08:46

Thank you for your post even if does seems a little off topic

I thought it was an excellent point actually.

CoolCarrie · 30/06/2017 11:02

I don't read decent's posting as adverts at all. She is just giving us insights into how a good landlord should behave, which is relevant to this thread.

Stopnamechanging · 30/06/2017 11:08

I found the posts really odd, quite bizarre. The stressing of how many good deeds are done, the kindnesses that they try and fit in every day.

Yet, they have no 'appetite' for dealing with the claims for people on benefits.

I am possibly too cynical but I found the advertising of the blog and links to properties with prices very strange.